Did anyone catch David Miliband on the News at 10 advertising Aptamil?

[foxytoxin]

I guess he like the current PM doesn't understand about the WHO Code and UK Law restricting the promotion of formula but Jeez, I expect the news editors at the Beeb to have some awareness.

In case you want to view it and complain about it, here is the link. Fast forward to 9.30 mins.

it's in my threads I;m on.goes to check active convos..

yep it's in active too.

.

.

Got it back :)

I think you're all missing the point. Ed, as a potential future leader of the country (unlikely!), yes should be 'advertising' formula. However, he wasn't 'advertising' formula. He was making a cheesy 'look-at-me-aren't-I-a-lovely-nice-bloke' and somewhat naive comment that I can totally imagine my husband making to make him seem more likeable even though we never used Aptamil (in fact have only ever been able to use prescription formula). And the BBC editors chose the clip not through anything other than the fact that is is relevant to the only other thing people know about Ed M at the moment - i.e. that he is a new dad.

I take the point that the marketing chaps at Aptamil will have been delighted about this. But it was not advertising. And it is 'editorially justified' - the narrative is that Ed is relatively young, inexperienced and a new dad. And this clip demonstrates that - as this thread frankly demonstrates.

I am sure that he as Mrs Miliband are mortified by the sh*tstorm on here though! And I bet he'll be very worried abut his inevitable next trip to MN towers.

like i've said at least he knew what his baby was having some men dont have a clue

Still chuckling over people waving squirty bottles of Aptamil.
Hilare.
If a midwife came into my house and started lecturing me about bf-ing I would treat her the same as I treat jehovahs witnesses and green lunatics people. I can barely stand them coming into my house as it is. To then be lectured at by them would be the final straw. She(he) would be promptedly removed and would feel the sharp edge of my tongue. Cannot believe you seriously think people need or want midwives to be like this foxtytocin.

pommedeterre but you don't mind formula adverts on telly? there they are, in your house, telling you how to feed your baby....

and yet again this argument has got stupid.

stupid in that whenever people attack the appalling business of formula marketing, women take it as a personal attack - those formula companies have stacks of legal assistance - they don't need you to stick up for them! An attack on them is not an attack on you, anymore than an attack on Tesco is an attack on me (i shop there a lot).

"Because it is not the same as any other product. Promotion of formula undermines breastfeeding, which is socially and culturally fragile in this country. It is the sole source of nutrition for the most vulnerable, voiceless parts of our society. Of course it should be freely available - it does not need to be, and nor should it be, promoted"

"no one is tying to 'force' you into breastfeeding (weird concept....how would they do that, then?). Not permitting club points and BOGOFs is not to treat formula as evil (FFS) but to prevent its promotion."

Those two statements are contradictory on the one hand you say it should not be advertised/put on special offers because it undermines BF but then you go on to say no one is trying to force people not to buy it?.

Define your definition of undermining, I mean your boobs are there if you want to use them at all times of the day or night, no matter what the supermarkets do they can never under cut the price of breast milk.

If people want to breastfeed perhaps there is not enough support for them, perhaps this world is more geared towards get off your arse and work till you drop etc, that is an entirely different issue, the government can create more support for woman who want to while not bullying those who don't want to by not giving formula advise in the hospitals when asked and in my case refusing to comment on formula milks when asked about them in the classes, and all so not allowing advertisement or special offers in the shops to help the hard up.

thats called making something a taboo subject
in the hopes that ignorance of the alternatives and constant pushing by midwifes and the media will push you into bfing when you don't want to and making you feel like a weirdo and freak for not wanting to, which is how I was made to feel, driven to tears sometimes I was over it.

I dont have formula stage 1 advertising on telly. I didn't even see this so it really HASNT been on my telly. I would also argue against the fact that they 'tell' me how to feed my baby. Actually if you take them literally they don't, do they? One could argue a lot about the pervasive effects of marketing and one would be right. But comparing the preachy midwife to follow on milk adverts, well, one is getting evangelical and lecturing and one is suggesting.
I don't want formula advertising in my house and i don't want preachy midwives in my house. Both take me for a fool.
I want to be trusted to make a call that's right for me and my family and be left the f*ck alone to enjoy my baby.
That is what I want(ed).
I am taking nothing personally, PE. I am just a stroppy cow who likes a fight debate.

Well thats what I'm saying leave me the fuck alone to deside for myself but....

Treat forumula milk like every other product you can buy, don't treat it as an evil thing like fags that shouldn't be on offers or advertised and treated as a taboo.

Don't tell me what to do (midwife, GP, Health vistor, pregnancy literature) just give me advice when I ask for it on my choice, info if and when I need it on ALL the options, additional help if I need it.

Is that really too much to ask?

I still stand by what I said, you make a big deal about things and it puts people off, the manager of another shop in the company DP works for, was having a baby at around the same time as me, it hearted the both of us to find out that neither of us wanted to breast feed, both where getting pressured/moaned at about it and we where not alone in not wanting to do it so not the freaks the health care system made us think we where.

Bloody hell, Ryoko, you are so resentful.

Formula is not like every other product you can buy. It is the sole option available for babies who are not breastfed and forms the sole content of their diet for the first few months and a major part of their diet for the first year. Why should it not be produced, packaged, marketed and sold ethically so marketing practices do not undermine breastfeeding, and so mothers who use it are not faced with rubbish health claims and spurious slogans?

Restricting its marketing to ethical practice might well mean not advertising - but you can (happily) still buy it everywhere, easily and without restrictions.

Of course doctors, midwives and other HCPs and pregnancy literature will inform you of the health impact of infant feeding choices - why on earth would they not? What planet do you want to live on?

Oh do come on, there are watchdogs to stop stupid health claims.

They bully about breastfeeding and refuse to say anything about formula other then oh the government doesn't advise that.

Well I don't care, I'm 31 years young, brought up on SMA and I'm not at deaths door, catching flu every five mins, nor am I as think as a toff.

Before SMA was introduced to this country in the late 70's kids where given carnation milk and brown sugar, because there was no formula milk, people made up there own based on old wife tails about what was the best combination of things to us, you can't force people to do something they don't want to do, not in this country not when there are options even if the option is just cow juice and sugar, no matter how you dress it up as ethical or more healthy, it's not healthy to smoke or drink, we are told to eat 5 day but we don't because at the end of the day we will do what we want to do, and all the NHS should be doing is making sure we know all the facts about ALL the options, so you don't have people giving follow on milk to 2 month olds, because thats all that is advertised/on offer thats all they see and they don't know the difference because no one told them, so you don't get people making it up in advance in 2 lite bottles and sticking it in the fridge to re-heat later because they don't know thats a bad thing to do etc.

I live in the planet of West London mate, reading Emma's and Bounty (the two things we all get), and I went to Queen Charlotte's where I got blasted in the classes for not wanting to breastfeed and strangely even more so for plaining to use disposable nappies.

Ryoko - so far, 'stupid health claims' have persisted.

'Supports your baby's immune system', 'now even closer to breastmilk', 'gentle on tiny tummies' - none of these mean anything and how on earth do parents decide whether they want something 'closer to breastmilk' or if that is 'better' than it being 'gentle on tiny tummies' - that sort of daftness is ok for a washing powder, or even a yoghurt, but not for a baby's sole diet. And while manufacturers have been told to take these claims off their packs, they still continue to include them.

Not sharing info about formula feeding is poor postnatal care and if ff women want more info, then of course they should have it.

I'm finding it hard to follow your second paragraph - you're getting carried away with the bloody bee in your bonnet. I gather it's something about people will do what they want to do....and that they need facts not bullying? I agree - but you probably dont want facts about the risks of formula feeding, because you think the fact you are still alive at 31 trumps it all!

Your anecdote about feeding and nappies just shows that in West London people get criticised for whatever parenting choice they make - means zero in this debate.

Simply saying that when there was no alternative people created there own, you will all ways have people who don't want to, instead of trying to bully them into it (which is how I feel I was treated) and trying to make formula a taboo subject, people should be free to gain help and information about any way they chose to feed their babies equally, I'm sure feeding new borns follow on milk because thats all they have heard of and no one told em otherwise and the making up vats of the stuff in advance is far more harmful to babies then allowing mothers full information and help with formula feeding, as much as they are offered it with BF.

We all have different experiences at different health care trusts (who no doubt train staff differently and provide different information), I can only speak from the experience I had.

I am sorry you felt bullied, ryoko - that is never justified.

Please don't use this understandable resentment and hurt to belittle the importance of breastfeeding, and to denigrate campaigns that aim to ensure formula is marketed ethically.

Having a world free of formula advertising does not mean 'bullying formula feeding mothers' but you persist in conflating the two issues.

I don't see safety pins, coat hangers or buckets advertised either, but I don't think this makes the use of them 'taboo'.

'Taboo'.

FFS.

"To then be lectured at by them would be the final straw. She(he) would be promptedly removed and would feel the sharp edge of my tongue. Cannot believe you seriously think people need or want midwives to be like this foxtytocin."

Wow! what a gross misinterpretation of what I was hoping to say. Maybe I don't speak English as well as I thought I did.

Pomme, a midwife being informed, adequately trained in basic counselling skills and with experience to develop an empathetic ear and tongue will not come across as patronising, lecturing hectoring and bossy. That is what we have now. Taht is what I'd hope adequate, well rounded training in infant feeding issues would eliminate.

Note I said infant feeding. This is not a breast vs bottle discussion. It is about midwives being able to sensitively talk to mothers. About them having enough time, training and experience to do so properly and supportively. Please re read what I may have said earlier as I'd hate to think I wrote something so grossly misleading.

You said midwives should be less 'coy' foxy. As currently they advise when asked surely being less 'coy' involves pushing bf?
That's what i think is wrong.

"I don't see safety pins, coat hangers or buckets advertised either, but I don't think this makes the use of them 'taboo'."

But there's no ban on them being advertised, and I wouldn't be surprised if you hung around those shopping channels long enough you'd see an advert for a JML Super Bucket or something.

And I'll echo the use of the word "taboo".

As I've said much earlier in the thread we were advised to switch to formula feeding due to various problems and difficulties.

The staff would only give us one ready mixed bottle of nameless formula and then we had to get our own sorted out, they weren't allowed to give us any more than that.

They wouldn't give any advice on what we were looking for and what we should get. I live in a very pro-bf area and had had no advice at all on formula during the run up to the birth, we were completely in the dark and had no idea about any of it.

We asked for help and were bluntly told that they couldn't give us any advice at all. In the end it took some pressure and whispered mutterings before we got some help.

So yes I will use the word taboo to describe how it felt to be discussing something with a very reluctant senior member of staff with her leaning forward and whispering while looking over her shoulder to see if anyone was watching her.

Taboo means "proscribed by society as improper or unacceptable" and that is exactly how that moment felt. Then throw into the mix the despair, distress and worry at having a newborn that just wasn't thriving.

And this wasn't a long time ago, it was less than a year.

by 'coy' I meant that they tell mothers rubbish like they can't discuss formula with them because of hospital policy.

or that they are only allowed to talk about breastfeeding

or that they cannot recommend a brand of formula, true, however it doesn't stop them from telling mothers the truth about formulae which is that they are almost identical to each other due to legal standards of its constituents and that any other fancy ingredient on which they claim superior to the next brand is guff.

stuff like that.

But midwives you see have been so poorly trained thoroughly marketed to, many of them have bought the smoke and mirrors talk and think that oh, Aptamil is best, for example.

Good lord a midwife with an empathetic ear and tongue? does such a thing exist?.

I thought they where all preacher bossy cows (and in the case of one man hating as well).

Give me my adverts for infant formula (and my points and special offers) you can have your adverts for BM as well I don't care, so long as things are equal.

I don't like the way things are going, next up they will be banning adverts for fatty foods and sweets, we have minds, let us deside what we want.

they take us all for idiots anyway.

See Ryoko, I have met some fantastic midwives and some right plonkers too. Please give midwifery a fair shake or no one will take you seriously on this board.

Well I actually wrote a letter of complaint about the man hating one who took exception to DP changing nappies and feeding our son, I didn't know her name, but get a letter back from the trust saying that sounds like someone or other and they have had problems with her before and she's currently undergoing re-training (yeah right I bet) hows about her going through a stage of unemployment instead (I'm sorry to sound a cow but she really did make my life a misery in that hospital).

I'm not against breastfeeding, I'm against promoting something to the point of bullying and treating alternatives as taboo subjects.