130000 students at least saying no to this rotten government

[telsa]

Isn't that amazing. Why no posts on it? Here's a great analysis from someone in the kettle.
leninology.blogspot.com/2010/11/spontaneous-massive-and-militant.html

I agree, Ryoko. But I think the answer is not to cut HB and not to raise uni fees. I think the government should raise taxes instead.

I don't know where I stand on the 50% at uni target thing. I think it was a bad idea to abolish the polytechnics, but they did it in order to reduce elitism. A first degree is really just an indication that a person has had the self-discipline and motivation to follow a course of study for 3 years. A potential employer might be just as impressed with someone who had had a steady job for 3 years.

Increase tax and you increase the number of people needing top up benefits, it all goes round in circles, one big catch 22.

Well I mean increasing the tax that wealthier people pay, on a sliding scale. Agree it doesn't make sense to tax people and then top them up with benefits.

I think the 50% thing does reduce elitism. It just means that more people have a higher level of education.

"Saying you should pay for us because we will contribute in the future, and the unemployed/low paid families/disabled should get fuck all because they will never amount to anything is a joke"

Are any of the students saying this Ryoko?

"more people have a higher level of education" ... but spend even longer looking for a firm to employ them on what they consider an acceptable "graduate" salary (and will be looking to move on in 2 years, to get a higher salary, from some other firm).

The reduction in elitism is a good idea, but if there are too few 'good' jobs to go round, whether the level of education has gone up or not has not really helped them too much.

Indeed, it might discourage them from taking any form of employment because, having had a higher level of education, some may be more fussy about what they are willing to do.

[ and no, I'm not meaning to suggest some would be better off without higher education, but may find it all the more depressing that despite having studied for some years, they move into a dead-end job and can see nothing better on the horizon.

Sometimes the "university of life" can be a more useful type of education.

Agree, NetworkGuy, but education isn't just about finding a job. It's also about political nous, reading between the lines when the government spin you a tale about 'Big Society' - and quality of life. If some people feel aggrieved about not being able to get a job that they feel is commensurate with their education, that can't be helped. Very few people ever regret having had an education, surely.

I can see medicine being used as an example but that isn't necessarily a good one given that doctors are among the hgihest earners in the country. A doctor will always earn more than enough money to repay the debt. I certainly don't know any poor doctors.

For example, it takes 11 years of training to become a GP. So with some medical graduates who want to be GP's, by the time they are 29, they will be earning a 6 figure salary. They can therefore well afford to repay their debts.

I paid tuition fees and then I took out a bank loan to pay privately for the Legal Practice Course (for which no goverment funding is available) which cost £8000 for that 1 year course in itself. I got into high levels of debt but now I'm qualified and earn more than enough to pay it back.

Why is it so hard for young people to accept that they might have to pay for something that they want and that will benefit them.

A1980 because we have had a philosphy in this country for many years that education should be free for everyone, because it benefits everyone, and because if it isn't free then only those who can afford it will get it. Which isn't fair, is it? Remove that premis and we'll be left with only the strong survive, and back into serfdom for the rest of us.

About doctors: I feel privileged to pay for their training, and don't begrudge them a penny of what they earn. They saved my daughter's life. That's priceless.

I paid for my own legal training when I didn't have rich parents to pay for it. I took out loans and paid for it myself. I've benefitted from it!

Doctors have never been as well paid as they are today. I won't lie awake at night thinking of them having to pay for the lucrative career they are training for and that they will benefit from the most. They will always be in a job and will earn enough to pay it back.

We don't have that philosophy anymore and we can't afford to. Time change. I dealt with it, so should others.

Some of us do still think that everyone deserves an equal bite at the apple.

A lot of people who have risen high in their professions have had to make sacrifices along the way. I'm glad you have benefitted from your hard work and canniness with money.

But I don't see what that has to do with the issue of free education. No-one is discussing removing your choice to take out loans etc to finance yourself in your career. What we are trying to do is avoid making it more difficult to get into uni so that more people can have access to higher education.

I really don't care how much a doctor earns. I would be worried though if the thought of getting into debt put off even one doctor from going to uni.

Good good good! The idea is to bring English students in line with Scotland and Wales. If we can afford it, why can't you? The answer is you can, but it looks like you are going to have to fight for it. And we're rooting for you. Demos and sit-ins planned in Scotland too, in solidarity - and because we worry that the government is going to bring in tuition fees here too.

Can he sing? That might help. We've all got to sing from the same hymn sheet, and make the government take notice.