Voluntary work or lose benefits

[Marjoriew]

Government intend to cut benefits of claimants on JSA who refuse to do voluntary work of 30 hours a week over a 4-week period.
Benefits could be stopped for up to 3 months if claimants refuse to comply.

Loudlass - you sound like you feel you're entitled to more because you have a baby on the way.

Wake up and smell the coffee - no-one but you and the kid's father should pay for your child.

The new order awaits - wanna family? Pay for it yourself!!

lifeinlimbo - are you hard of readiing?

I stated categorically that lodlass is NOT poor. She takes home what we do - only SHE feels the need toi start threads complainiong she is hard done by.

She isn't, and i have absolutely no idea why you think she is.

In answer to your question, I think wahes are so low precisely because such high benefits are paid to people like her - we as taxpayers currently subsidize employers to a huge extent.

I'd like to see less benefits (=employer subsidies), as employers would then find that no-one was prepared to do the shitty jobs without a proper wage. I'd also like to see much higher starting rates of tax - for families who earn 16K, say, to pay tax at all, is ridiculous.

Now time for a sensible respoonse from you - what would you like to se as a solution - or is just increasing the benefit bill to the skies the only solution (as the easiest for you, involving the least actual work from you) that you're prepared to contemplate?

edam - stop trying to forever take from me (a VERY generous taxpayer) and I might join you in debate...

wubblybubbly, I'll think you'll find that's what I did.

I shared my experience.

Clearly, it won't be appropriate for everyone, everywhere. But for some it will.

In my world, where freedom of speech is allowed, non-experts are actually allowed to express an opinion too.

granted - you have a point about taxpayers subsidising employers who pay poverty wages. That's essentially what tax credits do. Sadly haven't seen any evidence that Labour, Lib Dem or Tories plan to tackle them - each party has been quite happy to let corporations like Vodafone or Tesco pay far too little tax.

sumfing, what on earth are you on? I'm not on benefits, as it happens. But even if I was, it would be none of your ruddy business. You don't own people on benefits. In fact, they pay taxes too. VAT, for instance.

Nope, I don't 'feel like I'm entitled to more' because I have a baby on the way, but given the fact that I've been trying to get my PCT to sterilise me for 7 yrs, as I take meds that interfere with contraception, and have fallen pg as they wouldn't due to me being 'too young', it is a cost that wouldn't be happening if it wasn't for a 'postcode lottery' on NHS sterilisations.

DP works FT sumfing, and if he was paid a 'living wage' which from various threads on here, seems to be accepted as being around the HRT mark of £44K pa as a liveable wage where people are not 'rich' but getting by, then we would not be getting any state help if his rich bastard employers were paying him £44K or thereabouts instead of £16K.

Or should someone working FT on £12-£16K PA not be allowed to have dc?

granted, in that case, fair enough.

It was your statement that

'I've also suffered from depression and can vouch for the fact that the best thing in that sort of situation is to need to go somewhere, do something, esp something physical in the open air.'

which I was questioning. I did sound rather like you thought all depressed people need to do is get out of the house a bit more.

Loudlass the claim that your current pregnancy is the PCTs fault is absurd. You and your DP should be responsible for your contraception.

As granted said it will have these effects

1. give the unemployed work experience and (some) skills
2. improve our environment/society eg less litter etc
3. make clear the social contract whereby those who receive benefits make a contribution to society in return.

It's a good plan. So it's for people who dont' have children or have children over the age of 5 - that makes it even easier. They could even run after school clubs so that the other mothers can work after school hours too in the voluntary work.

It's going to be good.

Sumfing, it seems you posted 'fuck off edam' because you assume I am on benefits and therefore you own me in some way are are entitled to abuse me?

Pathetic. Launching a personal attack because you think someone is on benefits? What a coward you are.

Totally agree, GiddyPickle (good name :)) - and it's not only graduates who feel they couldn't possibly 'demean' themselves by taking a menial, poorly paid job. I remember about a year back reading about some new scheme for the unemployed. V v annoying as they interviwed a participant, who was unemployed (mid 20's, perfectly fit and presentable) who had been unemployed for years because she wanted a job in the media and wouldn't consider anything else us other poor sods actually do for a living with less cachet/salary.

Grrr.

Perhap people on JSA could see it as a positive thing. Going for jobs and not getting them is a huge knock to your confidence so doing voluntary work and getting praise, making a difference etc could, in theory, be just what people need. Voluntary work needs to be suited to the person though or it could have the opposite affect.

Granted - I agree with you. . If employers were paying people like my DP a living wage, there would be no need for Tax credits, thus saving a massive chunk of the benefits bill.

I don't think that benefits or Tax credits should be perpetually increased, but equally I do not see employers raising their wages by ENOUGH to make the difference, as they would go out of business if they did so!

So how would it be done, because there WOULD be people taking these low paid jobs if it all they can get, even if there were no TC's...because people like my DP would rather work for peanuts than be unemployed. Or would rather work for an amount of money that wont even feed and clothe their family than GO ON THIS WORKFARE SCHEME. To be treated worse than a criminal.

BeerTricksPotter - the sad thing is, your fondness for taxpayers to take up the slack with regard to provision for children born (ahem) on the hoof...results in yet more young "men" realising that they can impregnate as many women as they wish - those that will lie back and open their legs without a moment's thought as to who will pay for the new life.

Speaking as a bloke, it's a no-brainer - f*ck away, you'll never have to face the consequences...

Oh but hang on, there are also loads of threads in the "Relationships" category, detailing woe and misery because of some juvenile w*nker sodding off and not facing up to his responsibilities...hmmm, if only there was some link to these problems....

wubblybubbly - I agree it could be read as "rather like you thought all depressed people need to do is get out of the house a bit more." - should have worded it better, long post.

I certainly wouldn't be dim enough to go that far; nevertheless, I'd stand by my position that for less depressed people/those 'on the mend', a spot of purpose, company, exercise and fresh air are generally helpful.

GiddyPickle, I think what you've described is fairly unusual. My partner has applied for entry level jobs. For example, he applied for a job in a call centre nearby. He was sent an email and told that he'd be given a phone interview. He was nervous as it was his first real glimpse of a job. He picked up the phone only to be told that there were no longer any vacancies. That is the closest he has come to any job. Another of his friends is still unemployed and another managed to find a temporary job stacking shelves. When it ended, it was back onto JSA. Between them, they have an economics degree, a pharmacology degree and a mathematics degree, two of them from top London universities. They are not at all workshy and I think that, had they known in advance that they were going to be unable to get any job at all after getting into thousands of pounds worth of debt, they would have all become plumbers :)

edam - no, I simply despise everything you stand for.

Vixel - DP allergic to spermicide, so any type of condoms were out. I had to have a coil removed as it tore my womb, and I was advised never to have one fitted again. Any form of hormonal contraception is at best 85% effective due to my medication for my disability that causes hormonal contraception to be metabolised too quickly in the body. How in that situation is sterilisation NOT the only sensible option of birth control? They've finally agreed to sterilise me after this baby is born (thank God), but it's taken me 7 years of trying.

Loudlass - have you heard of condoms?

Well, not necessarily plumbers, but certainly learnt a trade which does not take as long as completing a degree and doesn't cost anywhere near as much.

How is birth control relevant to this thread?

Xenia - would YOU leave your dc with someone untrained, not CRB checked, not OFSTED registered and that doesn't even want to be there? NO? Then why should ANYBODY be forced to leave their dc with someone like that? Or should it not matter how risky the situation is that they are putting their dc in just because they have the temerity to be on benefits/ have lost a job/ have left an abusive ex/any number of other reasons someone could be on benefits.