So child benefit to go for higher rate taxpayers

[foxinsocks]

So says George osbourne on breakfast telly. Missed the details but sounds like it comes in from 2013!

jujubean - Part of me was wondering that too. Perhaps a year down the line they will state that they have had a rethink and it only applies to those in the 50% bracket (wishful thinking).

What does Red Ed have to say about the matter? He said he wants to stand up for the "squeezed middle".

The reason they are not going to means test cb is that the cost of doing so, would cancel out any savings made. Or so I was told years ago when I worked for the dwp.

It really is unbelievable that the government haven't thought of how staggeringly unfair this is, when it's based on 1 income and not joint income. Maybe there is something else going on?

If they'd just decided that CB would be lumped onto the Child Tax Credit system and tapered in the same way I'd not have a problem with it no longer being a universal benefit, even if it did mean that we'd almost certainly lose out.

If they'd suggested limiting CB to 2 children in future, or reducing the amount once they got to school age, or stopping it once they hit secondary (carers/disability allowances could go up at the same points to compensate those groups) then yes it would have hit some now, but as an ongoing system it would be hard to see it as inherently unfair.

I do have a problem though with a system in which CHILD benefit can be so different for children living in families with the same income, just distributed differently, or less for those in lower income families than higher income ones.

And I definately have a problem with a proposed tax regime which can produce a marginal rate of tax in excess of 100% (earn £44001 and the marginal rate on that £1 would be over 175000% for someone with two kids for example) and a whole income bracket where it's better to forego income or reduce hours worked than to accept a promotion/pay rise (to have the same income you'd have at £44000 you'd have to earn £47651 with 2 kids by the time you'd paid 40% tax and 12% NI and lost your entitlement to CB, more if you're in a company with compulsory pension contributions, or had more than 2 children). The disincentive to achieve that this would produce surely wouldn't be beneficial to the economy?

Can I suggest we email our MPs.

Mine's already responded.

mj, I'm shocked by your employer's breathtakingly cynical policy, and I believe you but I think it's disgraceful. And I didn't think you were having a dig at your cousin.

Scottie I think to get that a family would either need to have very many children, live in an area with +++ rent (which is dropping soon anyway, teh housing benefit) or have a few disabled children. Disabled children pushes tax credits up (severe disability or disability payment).

I don;t think it's the norm.

And whsilt we don;t have a flatscreen and are a worlking family.... can you actually buy cathode rays now anyway?

Emailed mine yesterday about carers and am awaiting a reply.

heard from him last week very quickly but that was after QI laughed at the lack of work he ahd to do or somesuch

But how much extra does the dual income household pay in childcare? (nursery or wrap around/school holidays?)

Can anyone do the sums?

I'm imagining 2X children in breakfast club alone is GBP 90/week..........

I think that varies as to where you are?

It's £120 here for brekky club and after school, for two.

"Why oh why did GO not just start again with a massive simplification of tax and benefits as IDS wanted?"

Presuming you talking about the idea that everyone, regardless of status or need, receives a tax free benefit payment from the Government which you floated on another thread?

GO probably didn't go with it because even a few rough calculations show it as completely impossible with each tax payer being required to pay 1.5 times the benefit in tax just to keep the benefits system afloat.

If the benefit was any value near what would be required to live on, you suggested £10k, then the numbers simply don't add up. £15k in tax from every worker?

We pay about £30/day per child for holiday clubs that include a lot of activities from 8.30 am to 5.30 pm.

WRT to the true universal credit (which the Greens floated as a citizens wage IIRC) surely if everybody gets X amunt then the prices will just rise to match so that poorer people ares till completely priced out of hosuing etc?

so the dual-income £80k household isn't actually raking it in (over the £45k single-income 2 parent, SAHP family) - since they are paying out a fortune in childcare.

Who will lose out is the £45k lone parent family, since they are about to lose CB and presumabley have to pay a fortune in childcare costs

The only lone pareents I know are women wehose XPs are wankers. And now they're losing CB. Nice one T*ries

Why oh why did GO not just start again with a massive simplification of tax and benefits as IDS wanted?

Costs too much upfront. Would need another massive new computer system for starters....

Hamng on, not all those famillies are paying childcare- heck of a lot work shifts around each other, from home or use family.

Agree wrt to soem but certainly I can thik odf cases where parents both earn +++£ and Nan does the childcare

Ooh, just emailed my MP with regards to this, fine scrap the cb is what I have said but please do it fairly as why should dh and I be penalised for being married and both earning money, although dh earns more because of being ft, where I have friends that have a combined income of wayyyyyy more than us and will be recieving it. I can't wait to hear what he says!

It is all very well saying that dual income family's pay more in childcare but frankly it is proportionate so I pay a considerable whack of my salary to childcare even though I am pt, as much or perhaps more than someone on ft salary as we don't benefit from childcare vouchers etc as some people do.

Effectively it does make me really think about working pt again after ml which is sad as whilst I am working I am paying tax, ni etc etc and contributing to my private pension and the public sector pension through tax - it ain't much but it would take the strain off the govt in the future. Yet again an emotive subject that can be percieved unfairly.

Highlander, childcare fees per annum £10,432.

Sorry, that's our childcare figs. Loss of 2.5k in CB going to hit us pretty hard. Am contemplating options, some of which must be illegal!

I find it interesting that before the election David Cameron spoke about his "big society" idea where people would expect the state to do less and there would be more volunteering to fill the void left. Given that SAHMs tend to do a big whack of the volunteering I think they may be less willing to do so in the future - lose £2K in child benefit and then give basically something like £5k free work to the state? Who would be that much of a mug?

Nursery here is £60 a day (London)

That's interesting. Just listening to the formal political editor of the sun

His opinion is we'll forget all about this once the other cuts come in

Nice to have something to look forward to

Everyone mother I know who works has in part some help from family OR works around her husbands shifts. Many freely admit they can only work as Granny provides the childcare.

So not all dual incomed families have shed loads of childcare to pay for.

Och I'm just gutted to lose over 3K a year in one hit stings a bit.