Pope's visit 'a huge success'... am I missing something?

[Chil1234]

Seems that the consensus of press reporting is that the Pope's visit was a 'massive PR hit', and that he has won over British hearts and minds. I'm quite astonished. Presumably the people writing these reports were exposed to the heady atmosphere of the live gigs, watching him preach to the converted crowds of happy nuns, the baby-kissing and so forth. Maybe they're reflecting the fact that no-one got shot and only a few were arrested? The big apology for the widespread abuse of children was certainly a good move - provided it means action and not just words.... But winning hearts and minds? I really think that's overstating it quite badly.

Quite. The people who went to those events, apart from the survivors of abuse and other protestors, presumably had a nice time. But they are only a few thousand people out of a total population of more than 60m.

Tbh, I find it VERY hard to understand why anyone would want their baby anywhere near an organisation that aided and abetted and committed institutionalised child abuse. Early conditioning into Pope = important and good? Attraction to power, charisma and glamour? Getting carried away in the moment?

I went to hear Billy Graham speak once despite being very sceptical. Was curious to see what it was all about and friends of mine were going. It would have been VERY easy to be swept away and run down the stairs to be blessed/saved. I had to resist a real urge to join in and be part of that happy, driven, intense crowd.

Depends on your perspective really. There were some historical moments on the trip that would have been unheard of up until now - the service with the head of the CofE, meeting the Queen etc. Beatification of John Henry Newman was another point of interest if you are that way inclined.
Successful for the people who went to see him and strengthened their faith. Probably successful for those who protested and made their views heard to many.
Massive PR hit - I have yet to hear anyone say they changed their views of the church after this visit. I don't think the nuns were converted by the way, suspect they were already Christian

I suspect the Pope was flagging up Newman in a 'yah boo sucks he converted to US' kind of way. He seems to have ignored the point Newman made about conscience being more important than obedience to church authorities.

Oh of course it was. Did you not see him say "ner ner ner ner ner" and thumb his nose to the Archbishop of Canterbury.
While asking if he would take Cherie Blair back in return.

If I were the Pope, I'd be offering Blair back first, ahead of Cherie. Although the Catholic church has form on protecting war criminals...

Declare victory and move on.

Its a well known and standard approach used to manage the news media now when an initiative is not particulalrly successful.

Political parties and firms do it all the time.

A "huge success"?

Well the Pope didn't ignore a single report of child abuse, didn't threaten a victim to keep them silent and didn't move a known paedophile to another church where he could abuse even more children.

He also didn't swear that he was willing to give up his life for a Fascist Dictator.

So that's an improvement on his past behaviour.

Thumbs up!

It was a huge success for Catholics who felt reinvigorated and inspired by his visit, particularly in light of the kicking their faith has received recently.

Good for them, I say.

The reports appear to be suggesting that all kinds are flocking to the catholic church for admittance - not that the faithful had a good time (something that's a bit of a given). I thought that - leaving the faithful & Peter Tatchell to one side - it would be more accurate to have concluded that the whole thing was of historical & ecclesiastical interest but, for the vast majority, it changed nothing.

probally written by the kind of person who would call a BB person the nations sweetheart......

"Benedict XVI's historic visit to Britain has been a resounding success ? and may have changed attitudes towards the role of religion in modern life, says Peter Stanford." Daily Telegraph... ?

OK so Stanford is former editor of the Catholic Herald but there are others saying similar things...

rofl BadgersPaws.
He did, however, tell us atheists were like Nazis which was a bit rich!

perhaps by "huge success" they meant that

a) they managed to prevent him from being assassinated

b) they managed to keep him (sort of) alive for the duration of the visit

btw, PR people, I can see the strings !

Dunno what else was "successful" about it. Absolutely everyone I know has switched over the tv during any coverage, or ignored the first few pages of the newspapers.

I don't know anyone that has been to see him in action, as it were.

it motivated 11,000 people to get off their backsides and engage in an anti-church demonstration - that's something quite unparalleled in modern times, I think you'd have to go back hundreds of years to find an demo that size against a church. Any church.

So that's quite something, and hopefully when the dust has settled on this quite misconveived event, it weill be food for thought for the organisers.

"He did, however, tell us atheists were like Nazis which was a bit rich!"

Well it takes one to know one.

In the end you've got to remember that the Pope must have been pulling peoples legs when he swore an oath to die for his Fuhrer, so you've got to take the other things the old joker says with a pinch of salt. What a wag!

good point, sh

I don't think that is what the PR machine was referring to though

Well one of the people I play online with was quite pleased about the visit. He got a day off school.

Don't you mean anti catholic demonstration Stubbornhubby and not anti church?

FFS please give over with the Nazi stuff. I work in Holocaust education, I know about this stuff. Being a member of the Hitler Youth as a child does not equal dyed in the wool Nazi, get your facts right. He was a German kid at the wrong time, as were many many others. It doesn't make him a concentration camp guard. Whatever else you have against him get over that one. Trotting that line out undermines all your other arguments.

"Being a member of the Hitler Youth as a child does not equal dyed in the wool Nazi,"

No, of course not, and perhaps it's my frustrations with the Pope and my experiences of the Catholic Church that makes humour seem like an appropriate reaction. Especially when the Pope starts labelling other groups Nazis.

However there is a point here.

The Pope did swear an oath of personal loyalty to Hitler. He also didn't "dessert" his unit until the unit had fell apart. He wasn't a rabid anti-Nazi and he didn't really fight the system.

Now I can actually understand that. We'd all like to think we had the courage and will of a Sophie Scholl and would take a stand, but few of us are up to that, and I don't dare to include myself among them.

Personally I also think that the world was trying to teach him something. Something about hard choices, compromises and the positions that people find themselves in. He could have been one of the greatest men of all time, few have experienced so close a brush with what many would could "evil" and gone on to hold such a high spiritual position.

Instead what we've ended up with is one of the most dogmatic and intolerant Pope's of recent times.

When he was young he chose co-operation with sin over punishment. Now, for example, he expects Africans to choose punishment, dying of AIDS, over sin, using a condom.

And that I don't understand.

I can almost hear the world sighing and saying "well we tried to show him differently".

I think it probably was a success for the RC church and the Pope, in quite a few PR ways. And it got a few of the aetheist types out of their beds to get a bit of fresh air as well. So we all win.

Rockbird, the Pope comparing atheists to Nazis is inappropriate for 2 further reasons:

1. he de-excommunicated a Holocaust denier - Bishop Williamson was his name IIRC.

1. as you are no doubt aware the Catholic church's record during the Holocaust (and I'm talking about the church hierarchy here, not about the many individual priests and nuns who acted heroically) was not exactly unblemished.

this is what I had in mind when I made my original comment about it being a bit rich for him to compare atheists to Nazis, but BadgersPaws posts are excellent and the Hitler Youth membership does indeed add a further layer of irony.

For those Catholics who are ordinary people - the majority I think I'd say - why can you not leave this alone now. The scale of pope bashing has been quite unbelievable over the last few weeks.

I think we're all agreed that what has happened regarding child abuse is outrageous, should never have happened and those affected should be compensated somehow. Likewise disagreeing with the Catholic church's outlook on women priests, homosexuality and HIV etc is fine, but I'm tired of hearing a religion consistently sneered at in such an unpleasant way.

Agree to disagree sure, campaign and protest sure, but this vitriol is deeply upsetting to the ordinary Catholic in the street.....

"The scale of pope bashing has been quite unbelievable over the last few weeks."

Perhaps that's been triggered by having this trip labelled a state visit and therefore landing this country with a bill in the region of £12 million.

So not only does the Pope have views that are extremely offensive and life threatening to many people but we've paid for him to come over and offend us.

The last Pope's visit here was labelled a State Visit and there the Church paid for it. It's probably not a coincidence that it didn't attract quite as much fuss.

"this vitriol is deeply upsetting to the ordinary Catholic in the street."

According to surveys the majority of British Catholics disagree with the Pope over child abuse, women priests, sexuality and contraception.

Therefore I'm not sure how upset the "ordinary" Catholic is as their views are more in line with the protesters than the Pope.