Fertility clinic porn

[yesway]

Well done Julia Manning for this.

It's clearly not really about money - but great that someone is making a stand.

My only thought on it when I heard about it on JL was "urgh; a dog-eared pre-used magazine."

Maybe partners should be permitted into the rooms with the men in order to help them instead. Or some way of being able to the deed at home and bring the sample in in some way quick and "fresh" enough.

I can't imagine a sterile room just off from the main corridor, within hearing of those passing by outside is the most arousing or stimulating of environments.

As a female NHS worker can I give another point of view?
I work in a fertility clinic which provides NHS IVF treatment for a large area of the country. Samples can only be produced at home if it can be delivered to the clinic within one hour. There are many of our patients for whom this is not possible, especially during rush hours. Also on the day of IVF/IUI treatment we need samples at a specific time, tied in with the female partner's treatment, and she is not able to help him. We prefer for the men to produce on site for all their samples - for prompt assessment in the lab, so they have had a 'practice' before treatment, and to make sure the guy we think produced the sample really did.
The other service we offer is for men/boys banking sperm before chemotherapy.
I don't feel demeaned/threatened/anything else by knowing that there are porn magazines in the rooms to help these guys if necessary. Some men do bring their own material and some do 'donate' it, but I feel we are obliged to provide some material (it is all newsagent type stuff). We have no DVDs though and no players for them to bring their own. In the grand scheme of money spent in the NHS I don't think it is really worth anyone's time to even worry about it. Whatever your feelings on NHS IVF treatment, think about the poor lads losing their fertility because of their cancer treatment.

"2020health.org called for an immediate ban on the provision of such material, and suggested if men can't produce samples by willpower alone that they should produce their emissions at home and carry them to clinics"

Does Julia Manning actually know anything about teh IVF procedure and how it works?

Fair enough views on porn and teh industry but she's talking bollox if she thinks it's as easy as producing a sample at home and bringing it in later.

"and to make sure the guy we think produced the sample really did."

yes, this is actually a really really important part of fertility treatment and fertility testing.

There has been quite a lot of discussion on this already in the Feminism section... those of us who have been through IVF seem noticeably less bothered than those who haven't.

Dh had to provide one sample before we started treatment. All others had to provided in very narrow timescales. We had 9 failed rounds of IUI and one successful IVF. In this, I tested to see when ovulation took place. I then phoned the clinic at the next available opportunity, they gave me an appointment to come in, DH had to be there an hour earlier to provide a sample. We had about 2 hours notice each time.

We were both working full time and going to a good NHS and private clinic in central london. It would not have been possible to produce the sample at home. Few/no employers would be happy with a sperm sample in the fridge, and wanking into a small vial at work would have been much worse. Also a sackable offence to have pornography in the office.

I couldn't have helped - i had to work and mentally prepare myself for undergoing a moderately uncomfortable procedure followed by massive emotional swings over the next two weeks let alone avoiding contamination or being in recovery following egg collection. If DH had not been able to produce a sample so the miserable treatment and hardcore drugs were for nothing, it might well have meant the end of our marriage.

So long as the porn is at the 'reader's wives' end of the scale rather than double anal, I really don't have a problem with it in this instance. If men don't need it, fine, they don't have to use it. If they do, it is probably better all round that it is either provided or they are told to bring their own and take it away again with a list of very local newsagents and a recycling bin provided.

I would like to ask Julia Manning if she could make herself cum to order in a small room in a fertility clinic with a nurse waiting outside the door to take her jar off her with only her own imagination to keep her going.

Sorry for being crude but that is the reality. Honestly there is are so many more important things to get your knickers in a twist about. I bet she hasn't ever had fertility issues.

Would it be okay if it was 'erotica' and the nhs trust bought up the black lace back catalogue?

Honestly - I think (agreeing with azazello) that if you've had ivf, you blot out a lot of things that would normally be unacceptable. You are in survival mode (if that makes sense). I am against the porn industry in general for obvious reasons and if I'm going to fight it, it's not going to be at this end of the scale!

It would probably be ok if it were a fat bird doing burlesque because that's 'empowering'.

Or perhaps Ms Manning would prefer all the men had needles stuck in their balls to get the sperm out that way at much greater expense to the NHS?

But why can't the men bring their own 'material' if they can't use their imagination. I don't want to pay for porn!

Because it's a hideous, hideous thing to have to do GenerationGap and having to pop into a newsagent to pick up a mag on the way is likely to make it even harder on the poor sods. My fertility treatment was private - is that ok, given the NHS didn't pay for the wank mag?

it's not like your tax bill has 0.5p for porn stamped on it. Why not just assume that your NHS tax is going towards helping kids with cancer instead of stressing about a miniscule amount going towards helping people produce sperm samples.

When my Dh went into the Private clinic's cubicle I wondered what he would have to help him - it's not easy to just 'go'.

I thought about going in to the cubicle with him, but as there were three cubicles all together we didn't think it was fair on the other 'wankers' in there. Also saliva etc can 'damage' the sample.

TBH my Dh found it very difficult to produce a sample in those conditions, and chose to stay at home for the next 'wank'... he had such a rush to the clinic with the specimen though it was horrific.

Didn't help at all the receptionist reared back from him when he told her what he had in his hand and where should he go with it.

I think this shows remarkable lack of insight or compassion for those unfortunate not to be able to conceive privately - and by that I mean in the privacy of home!!

Mags were available in the clinic we went to - DH said they were OK but the whole process was very difficult anyway.

Julia Manning should do a little more research, or indeed read the research already done in clinics before coming out with this twaddle (and I am against porn).

I just told dh about this thread (bearing in mind he has experience) and he said 'I have blocked out whether or not there was porn or not but I do remember there being a crushing array of hygiene products on display' and 'to save money they should have just downloaded some stuff off the net and laminated it for easy cleaning'.

LOL - like the laminated downloads for easy cleaning....may suggest that at our next staff meeting.

Plastic laminating pockets do cost, though

the article says "Of those trusts turning to WH Smiths, the average spend was £21.32 a year, with DVD spends coming in around the same level. "

FFS! This woman is seriously bitching about £21.32 a year on some smutty mags for an average trust? Just a self-publicist trying to get her name in teh papers.

The rooms used are not exactly seedy. When my partner went he recorded the room on his phone lol. there were magazines a chair and a bed. Very clean and not at something I felt was threatening to women.

FFS after tonight I couldnt care less if they brought strippers in to help men along.

An hour ago my partner called to say the hospital we are being treated at has been partly closed due to a fire. My first thought was 'can we proceed with treatment' then 'thank god we have no frozen embryos there at the moment' Then I felt horrible for thinking of all the patients last.

I can't think of anything less stimulating than having to wank on demand. I even have to chat myself up a bit first.

My DH had to bank sperm when he was treated for cancer last year. I do recall him complaining about the 'skanky' porn on offer after his first visit, and me suggesting that he get something more classy, or even download something more to his taste and take the laptop in with him for next time.

I don't think I'm uber-liberal about porn, but I appreciated that he was having to do something very private in pretty unpleasant conditions so was happy to go along with anything that would make it easier for him.

£700 a year is really absolute peanuts compared to some of the wastage in the NHS, and IMO the efforts of the thinktank mentioned in the article would be better spent elsewhere if they are truly serious about saving money.

i dislike porn, if dh wants to look at it, fine, but im never going to rush out and buy it him.

however, i dont get what the problem is for clinics to provide it for the men? its a horrible situation, dh was so worried that there would be a problem when he had to provide his sample that he couldn't ejaculate. the money spent on porn is a drop in the ocean when you consider that my sil who works for the nhs went on a picnic the other week with other admin staff, it was paid for by the NHS and cost £100. it was a "meeting".

If you look at the actual report it says "the average spend on magazines was £21.32 per trust per year". That's tiny - a far smaller cost to the NHS than answering the 160 separate FOI requests on this matter that Julia Manning submitted.

One of her main objections in the report is that the mags lead to "the encouragement of
?adultery of the mind?". This isn't about saving the taxpayer money.

What on earth is adultery of the mind?

I am incensed by this article - how on earth is the man supposed to produce a sample without porn?

Would it be OK for hospitals to stop providing water for patients who have to provide a urine sample. Perhaps they could all bring their own water in, save the NHS money again.

FFS. Only someone who has never suffered fertility problems could find something offensive in this.

"What on earth is adultery of the mind?"

It's a Biblical quote. Matthew 5:28 to be precise.

"But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

Julia Manning is the former Chairman of the Conservative Christian Fellowship, and her one-woman think tank was in the news earlier this year calling for IVF to be banned on the NHS as infertility is a 'lifestyle illness' and part of 'normal human variation'. She's got religious objections to fertility treatment and is using the smutty mags angle as part of her attack.