Baby thrown in front of bus by teenager...

[Minxie1977]

I've just seen the most chilling news on AOL about a baby being thrown in front of a bus by a teenage girl. I can't get my head around it! It makes me afraid to go out with my DD

urgh why not have a title :upsetting news: and then put details in the post

I saw it too, horrific!

story here

disgusting isn't it? what the fuck is going on in a kids mind that they would do something like that??? makes me feel really sad

Sorry - I didn't think of that - am genuinely shocked

To be fair i wish most of the horrible news was hidden - logged onto AOL and it was staring me in the face - came straight on here!

Oh, this 'girl' probably won't be punished at all for what she did.

I can't understand why the girl has only been charged with ABH rather than attempted murder.

Because murder has to be premeditated.

I still can't compute how anyone could do that to a baby - no matter what the circ's. The world's changed so much and I wonder how it can ever be 'normal' again. (aware I sound like a rambling old crone)

That is awful. I hope she is jailed for attempted murder. I imagine that it would be quite a challenge to protect her in prison.

The intention was there to kill the baby, even though she did not suceed.

but it wasn't premeditated so she won't be charged with attempted murder.
even if the baby had died it would only have been manslaughter.

i think the US system is different isn't it? they have first/second degree murder?

we have nothing equivalent to "attempted manslaughter"

Most US states have:
Capital murder - murder in conjunction with rape, robbery or kidnap and, in some states, murder of a law enforcement officer or fire/ambulance/SAR personnel and/or murder of a child under a certain age.

In some states, this is punishable by death, in orders, by life imprisonment without the possibility of parole.

1st degree murder - must prove premeditation

2nd degree murder - varies by state

voluntary manslaughter - something like this if the baby had died.

involuntary manslaughter

death by dangerous/reckless/careless driving and/or known as vehicular homicide - self-explanatory

Then various forms of assault.

Most cases are handled in state court, in which case you hear it as The State of X v. Defendant X.

Some are federal, in which case the case will be The U.S. Government v. Defendant X. Federal crimes take place when a person commits a crime in the course of crossing a state border, a crime against a federal officer or in a federal building, a crime crossing state lines such as drug trafficking or treason.

Just seems like there ought to be something more serious than ABH that she could be charged with.

"but it wasn't premeditated so she won't be charged with attempted murder."

There's no requirment for a charge of attempted murder to be premeditated in Irish common law and I was fairly sure this was the same in England (if not clarification would be appreciated as I should know things like this), only that it is a crime of specific intent i.e. she must have intended to kill the child.
It's harder to prove but it's possible.

She'd still be considered a juvenile at any rate, though, wouldn't she?

she could argue that she didn't intend to kill it tho, "just" to hurt it

what's the technical difference between premeditation and intent?

But they could surely argue that the average person would have resonable cause to assume that throwing a baby infront of a bus would kill it.

I know someone who was found guilty of murder, he shot him during an arguement. The gun was in the room and he picked it up and shot him. Same premeditation or lack of it I'd have thought?

Sorry you may be right. There may be none. But I believed pre-meditated to include a pre-conceived plan where as you can intend to do something on the spur of the moment with no planning but you still intend it.
I suppose you could get into theoretical philosophy about how long must one plan something before it would meet my definition of pre-meditated but equally then if we took them to be synonymous then every action bar reflex actions would be classed as premeditated.
So in short I'm not sure, I always thought pre-meditated involved a degree of planning.

"she could argue that she didn't intend to kill it tho, "just" to hurt it"
Yep she would, and it would most likely work Was just addressing the earlier point of a murder charge being impossible.

I think the requisite for intent is the "virtual certainty" test, so it'd have to be proved that by the accuseds actions the intended result would be a virtual certainty.
So is the action of throwing a baby in front of a bus one which the death of the baby is a virtual certainty?
Probably not, it's theoretically possible but I'd wager you're right.

This has creeped me out a lot purely as it is very close to where I live, and I can't shake the thought that such a thing might have happened in front of my DS.

Though I think there is probably something more complex happening than 'the youth of today are all feral scum'. For one thing, the press reports say the family were attacked in Primark and then the baby was attacked outside West Croydon Station. Primark is a good few minutes walk through a crowded pedestrian zone from the station, so were they chased all that way and no one helped?

When I read the title my first thought was it was a teenage mum who couldn't cope.
Then it got even more horrific

What the fuck has happened to the world?

I am shocked she is out on bail already!.. Her own family must be horrified at what she's just done!

She is 14 years old, NOT 4. She deserves to spend the rest of her teenage years in jail.

Unless she has major learning difficulties, its reasonable to assume that throwing a baby is lightly to kill, yet a lone throwing a baby in front of a bus. I think its reasonable for a 14 year old to know that the act of shaking a baby can kill.

Agree with reallytired. The average 14 year old would know that throwing a baby in front of a bus, is likely to mean death or severe injury. It is pure chance that the baby escaped with minor injuries. I am also shocked that she's been bailed, and can only hope she is living in fear now as it must be widely known who she is.

What is happening to this country?

In my town random attacks seem to be happening all the time. I actually dont go into our town anymore unless is very early in the morning before everyone is there.

It really makes me want to leave this country. I dont feel safe and I hate the thought of my daughters ever walking around alone day or night.