How do you feel about sharing spaces with "transmen"?

[BTT]

Should women be happy with sharing spaces (public conveniences, changing rooms etc.) with "transmen" (that is biological females) who have made themselves look like biological males and have beards and muscles etc. Wouldn't that be necessary if we segregate people by sex? Does it happen now? I am a conventional man who is thinking about how we should segregate people regarding those spaces and the difficulties it presents. I can understand (to the extent a man can) that women have good reason to be wary of men or anyone perceived to be one.

Interesting first post.

Why don’t you read up on all the previous posts on this topic.

This subject really throws me. Transmen are women so entitled to be in the womens toilets. However if they really strongly pass (which they rarely do) I think it is unfair for them to be in the womens loos. It could really scare some women and girls.
So I dont know. I think its a hard one.

Same here

Oh god, all the time. Transmen paraded around as the bogeyman with a 'be careful what you wish for' warning. It seems the only time that transmen get any air time in gender identity discourse.

Like most women, I'm perfectly comfortable sharing my space with transmen, because they are women.

Me too Upstartled. But if they really do pass as male I can understand why some women and girls wouldn't. And that matters to me, as it should do all women. Its not just your comfort that matters as a woman - its all women.
By the way, I am vehemently against transwomen being anywhere near womens spaces - but I take your point some of the TRAs use the transmen argument against us. Im not I am just pointing out those very very rate instances when a transman passes. Its really frightening for some women and girls.

a close relative is a young transman. They have been on testosterone for a couple of years and have a full beard and you cannot see from their shape that they are female.

They would by choice use mens loos and no-one would question that given their beard.

Many of their friends are similar.

‘Like most women, I'm perfectly comfortable sharing my space with transmen, because they are women.‘

Please don’t assume that you speak for ‘most women’ : some women, for sure. Many trans men , to be clear, women identifying as men , have been instrumental in removing female spaces from women, and eroding their rights. Personally, I am wary of women who are so uncomfortable with womanhood that they reject it, to the extent of surgically removing their secondary sexual characteristics. Imbibing testosterone to grow beards and muscles ignores the role of ‘T’ in aggression.

Third spaces seem the best answer, really.

I don’t care at all who pisses near me in a bathroom.

Why would I care about sharing toilet facilities with other women?

Trans men are women. They may well be women who believe themselves to be men but they are not. And as such I have no objection to sharing female spaces with other females...

pikkumyy77*. I don't believe that for a second

I'd rather share my space with transmen than transwomen, if that's the choice.
But I'd rather there were mixed sex facilities in addition to single sex ones.

@BTT - do you mind sharing male facilities with transmen and/or transwomen?

If a transman feels comfortable using the men’s loos- fine.
I don’t object to any adult human female using women’s loos

Most trans men/boys I’ve met don’t look like men, if I didn’t know they were trans I would assume they were non-conforming to stereotypes, like me.
I would have no issue sharing space with them.

Women can pass as men more than men can pass as women. If a trans man really appears to be male then it’s a weird one. I might feel a bit intimidated sharing space with someone I perceive as male, so maybe there really is a need for a third space.

If I knew someone was a trans man I’d have no problem sharing space with them, after all they are female so don’t pose a risk to me in the same way that a man would.

I’ve never seen a transman who really passes as a man. Even with a bald head and a full beard it’s generally pretty obvious

Surely though if they did pass you wouldn't know you'd seen a trans man?

Anyway to answer the question, I think trans men should use male toilets and trans women should use female toilets.

Understand that's not a popular opinion on here but it's what I feel most comfortable with!

Or non adult ones too, of course. The girls who identify as 'transboys' or non-binary definitely don't belong in the gents!

I think it is easier for transmen to pass than transwomen.

The risks of them using the opposite sex facilities are not symmetrical though. A transman would only be putting themselves at risk by using the male facilities but a transwomen puts every single female at risk when they use female facilities.

Hence I think both should use the male facilities.

As a man OP you should stop murdering all the poor TW who use the male loos and make them so frightened that they daren't use them. They just wanna pee after all....

I don't know what the answer would be. I think its much easier for transmen to look more 'authentic' than transwomen. The vast majority of transwomen look exactly what they are - men dressing up as women.

Someone I vaguely know at the school gates is married to a transman, and I genuinely wouldn't have guessed they were a woman. She passes very very well as male. There's also a 'bloke' on tiktok that I followed (because I thought he was hot, and I'm into quite masculine men!) and it wasn't until I saw a video that I realised he wasn't actually a male.

So, if I go with the way I feel about tw...they should absolutely use the bathroom of their biological sex, but I'd also be absolutely freaked out if what looked like a bloke was in the bathroom.

I have no idea.

Why would I have a problem sharing spaces with other women?

OP you are a man
Therefore you are entitled to an opinion on who can or can't use men only spaces. You do NOT get an opinion on who can access woman only spaces

Well they are women so I don’t have a problem sharing my space with other women. Where do you stand on Transmen and being imprisoned in the make estate?

If a transman feels comfortable using the men’s loos- fine.

In that case surely it's fine for trans women to use the women's loos.
You can't have it both ways

It depends on whether men mind the presence of masculinized females or not.