How do you feel about sharing spaces with "transmen"?

[BTT]

Should women be happy with sharing spaces (public conveniences, changing rooms etc.) with "transmen" (that is biological females) who have made themselves look like biological males and have beards and muscles etc. Wouldn't that be necessary if we segregate people by sex? Does it happen now? I am a conventional man who is thinking about how we should segregate people regarding those spaces and the difficulties it presents. I can understand (to the extent a man can) that women have good reason to be wary of men or anyone perceived to be one.

I think it would be difficult to tell between a trans man and say an androgynous woman because before trans, women who didn't like girly things were just androgynous.
I work with a trans man. They are about 7 stone and no way pass as male. They use the womens, I don't think my male colleagues would be too happy about a bio woman sauntering past the urinals.

Thanks for the replies. As a conventional man I can say I don't care all that much whom I share facilities with. I'm not going to get forcibly impregnated. In the end, men and women are fundamentally different in this regard. I might be concerned about modesty in the presence of women but I would honestly be more disturbed by the presence of a loud, punchy, tough-looking man.

I think trans women being in female loos is a world apart from a transman being in a male loo. It's the transman in this instance thats at risk and they are making that choice: the trans woman coming into our spaces is putting us at risk - that is not our choice.

Ultimately though it's men's bathrooms so it's up to them to choose who comes in. Just like it's up to us. Just like we should never speak for the disabled community etc.

There are some women who wouldn't like really passing transman in there so they shouldn't go in.

Sounds like y'all be genuinely surprised that the majority of transmen who have had top surgery and been taking T for a long time actually do look like cismen.

Most aren't going to tell you they're trans. And they're everywhere. Everywhere. You might be used to the either younger, or earlier in transition transmen who haven't had top surgery, aren't on T or haven't been on it long.

I haven't got a link for it yet, my nails have only just dried but I'm off to search for the news article about the two GC women in hospital because they both believed the other to be a trans woman in the women's bathroom... Saw something shared just now.

Well w'all don't actually NEEDTrans men or women to tell us they are Trans because we have eyes

No as the risks are not symmetric. A transman making the choice to use the men's facilities is only putting herself at risk. Female facilities need to be protected from males due to the overwhelming stats on violence being 98% male perpetrated.

I don't care I am just sick of constantly hearing about it like they are going to jump up and go 'gotcha' is the new obsession

Sorry that made me laugh! Obviously you wouldn't know.

Trans men are women.

I have no problem sharing spaces with them.

It's trans women - men - that I have a problem with in women's spaces, penis or no penis.

Well this is it isn't it. Men and boys deserve privacy in their single sex spaces too. I know my partner and son would be deeply uncomfortable at a urinal or changing in front of a woman...

Men are the problem regardless of how they dress, identify, or present. Women are not a threat regardless of how they dress, identify or present. A biological woman, regardless of how they dress, identify or present is not likely to be a risk to other women. They are however, likely to be at risk in male facilities.

Women - rarely a risk to other women
Men - potentially a risk to any woman

This is why sex matters. It's as confusing as you make it, OP.

If they have a penis that they can penetrate me with, then i don't want them in my toilet or changing areas.

I don't love your use of the word "should" tbh. Telling people what they should be comfortable rarely works well.

I personally don't have a problem with TM in my women spaces. They are women, however they identify, and as such, they have the same threat profile as women.

There are a couple of wrinkles which may mean that isn't a good solution though.

TM often pass much more convincingly than TW, so if you insist on them sharing women's facilities, you create a situation where women cannot easily police who is in their single sex space.

Where TM pass convincingly, you create a situation where women who are are uncomfortable with men in such a space may feel threatened because it will not be clear these people are actually women

TM may not want to use the women's space as they ID as men

Offering single sex facilities and mixed sex facilities is the best answer for anyone who just wants to pee. Those with different agendas, for example, those seeking affirmation through access to a space aligned with their identity, should be managed kindly but with a firm no and pointed to the mixed sex space.

Women use men’s loos all the time. Anywhere there is a long queue for the ladies there are always women who think fuck it and go in the gents. Your partner and son must have had a very sheltered existence if they’ve never encountered this.

No it's not fine. Men, however they identify pose more of a danger to women (and other men) than women do. This shouldn't need to be pointed out but apparently it does.

If women want to go into men's spaces that's on them and for the men to object to if they so wish.

Men have no right to go into women's spaces trans or otherwise, not whilst they continue to be the more problematic sex class, and not while anyone has yet to figure out a way to tell the harmless males from the harmful males (trans women included).

I think it's rare that either sex really can pass as the opposite sex, especially when faced in the flesh and hearing a person speak etc (note I said rare, not impossible) but if it were such the case that a trans man was so masculine you really couldn't tell they'd surely be in the men's anyway so it wouldn't be a problem to women to deal with.

Not remotely sheltered. I’ve just asked DP and he says the only place he’s ever encountered it was back in his uni days in Liverpool. And he didn’t like standing with his dick in his hand while women walked by to use the cubicles then either…

What a strange post OP. The very first words are what concerns me. A man pitching up to ask 'should women be happy with'. Then we get 'as a conventional man I can say I don't care all that much whom I share facilities with. I'm not going to get forcibly impregnated'. In fact we get 'a conventional man' twice.

Define conventional man please. And say what you mean. 'forcibly impregnated' means assaulted and raped.

(that is biological females) who have made themselves look like biological males and have beards and muscles etc.

Why would a transman who is identifying as man still want to use a women’s bathroom? Surely if they are identifying as a man now they should use the men’s bathroom, they can’t have it both ways.

•Women who look like men don't usually rape women.
•Women who look like women don't usually rape women.
•Men who look like men do rape women
•Men who look like women also rape women.

I could perhaps have phrased that better. I wasn't trying to tell women what to think, I was just interested in what they have to say.

By "conventional man" I mean a heterosexual adult male.

I wasn't trying to trivialise rape, I was just using formal language.

Exactly this. I also have a young relative who is a trans man. Absolutely no way would he wish at any time to be in women’s spaces.

The issue here is that if it is law that people must use the facility consistent with their biological sex then "transmen" won't have a choice. They will have to be in with the women, even if some of them look like men.

I don’t pay much attention to who else is using the public loos when I go and sometimes there’s a male cleaner/attendant. I don’t think it would bother me whether there was a trans man or woman. I’m not there to chat, I just go find my cubicle, pee, wash my hands and go. As long as you leave the loo as you found it I don’t care.

Lots of these trans men choose to get pregnant and "chest feed" so the idea that they would balk at using a women's toilet seems odd to me...

So maybe 'conventional men' might be ok with a different solution to the simple male/female division. This would be akin to the one being sensibly adopted by some sports which is to have a category only for females and then the other 'open' for all males plus females who wanted to use it?
I'd be happy with either solution, the 'open' one would need mens consent.