Cleaner living in a tent

[newbie202020]

I'm pretty sure our cleaner is living in a tent and I feel really uncomfortable about it and I'm not completely sure why.

She was recommended through a friend and has been cleaning for us for about a year with no problems, cleans well, is reliable etc. We've also recommended her to neighbours who she also now cleans for and they too are happy with her services.

She isn't from the UK, and her English is a little limited but have gathered that her husband was seriously injured a few months ago at work and hasn't been able to work since. She has also mentioned moving house. We assume her husband was in some kind of cash in hand job so unlikely to be receiving workplace sick pay.

Our cleaner was unable to work this week due to something medical and sent us a photo to show this (we definitely didn't expect to/want to see a photo) and she was clearly in a tent, sitting on what appears to be some kind of office chair.

We have no reason not to trust her, although she doesn't have a key and we are usually home for the duration of her working hours, but I really feel for her if she is living in a tent as she cannot afford accommodation. We are in London and rents are very high. As her English is limited I can't raise this with her sensitively and anyway, I don't think it's really my place to. We pay her the going rate around here of £17 p/h.

I'm interested in hearing the views of others on this.

Thanks all

I can't comment on the tent, but it is perfectly possible she is living in less than adequate accommodation... garages, sheds etc. And yes, possibly a tent.

In terms of hourly rates. That feels low. I pay my cleaner £20 an hour considerably further out than London. She is worth every penny for being reliable and good and we regularly review her pay together so she can have a say. Meanwhile agency cleaners around us charge up to £35 per hour.

Good cleaners are hard to come by and they deserve a fair wage.

I’d try to have a chat about it and see if you can connect her to a housing charity. But if that’s uncomfortable/ impossible due to language, I’d try supporting a bit more by giving her a raise to £18, or having her and extra hour, or continuing to pay her when you’re away on holiday or for sick week (if you can afford to). Maybe I’d leave out tea/coffee/cookies or cake or something else she can eat in the break. Just little things that might help discreetly

It’s not just cash in hand jobs that don’t pay sick pay. Statutory sick pay is the norm for agency and minimum wage workers. I’ve known people to defer operations because they couldn’t afford to take time off. This latest crap Sunak comes out with makes me very angry.

Is she here legally?

I would look into the implications of paying her cash in hand if she isn't paying tax etc.

£17 per hour is cheap. I pay £20 in Gloucestershire! Have paid up to £25.

I went to B and M to get some compost for garden pots and a member of staff helped me carry it. He was chatting and had just returned to work after an accident. He said he had to return because he had been living on his savings and had run out of money. It turns out B and M do not pay sick pay. He had moved there from Amazon who don't pay holiday pay either.
He works full-time in a big business and isn't paid sickpay. I was really shocked. I think many workers have no security to get housing .

Many, many people live in inadequate housing in the UK.
People are released from prison with a tent and told 'good luck' on their way out.
Social workers have housed vulnerable children in static caravans.
Families are bringing up their children in mouldy, damp homes without enough beds for them all.
There is a substantial number of people that live in tents, sheds, doorways, and are working. These people will be your cleaners, baristas, car washers, nail techs, childcarers, and any other low paid job.
I'm more surprised that you think anyone can afford a private rent on £17 an hour. Have a look at private rents in your area and see how many hours hours your cleaner would need to work to just pay rent before bills and food. And then get angry. This is the reality of Tory Britain.

See your plan is to make things even worse for her?

Is there an organisation for the language that she speaks. Eg i have a Philippine friend and she is part of a community/charity group for people from phillipines. They do all kinds, social, support, translating, charity stuff.people have all kinds of skills and knowledge in the group. They could reach out to her. Then its support not 'telling on her' if you know what i mean. She does sound in a bad way and could be isolated. The job could be a complete lifeline for them.

Look to see if your local authority or community college offers free ESOL classes. A good ESOL course will help not only with the language barrier, but with employability skills, healthcare access, and referrals to any relevant housing agencies.

If she's been able to communicate enough to say she's moved house, I would try and ask her where she lives. Maybe she can get help? I know it's v unlikely in London but no one should be living in a tent.

You are probably right. Your poor cleaner. Like ToBe says, get angry.

It feels like extraordinary cognitive dissonance that on a parenting site, we are not collectively outraged at the housing situation in Britain. Because this is what awaits our own children. Without a shadow of a doubt. Children in our DC's nursery groups and primary school classes will face unprecedented and insurmountable difficulties with housing and employment in the next decade or two.

Irrespective of whether our own privilege will be sufficient to future-proof and insulate our own DC from this unfolding crisis, we should all be paying very close attention to who benefits from the current state of affairs and act in accordance with our conscience. To paraphrase Nye Bevan "No society can call itself civilised when its citizens are unable to access housing for lack of means."

We need to push for radical reform and regulation of the rental housing market ‐not primarily through government subsidy, but a strict review of landlordship, and who is allowed to financially benefit from letting property to the tune of how much. We need to rethink the extent to which it is deemed acceptable to turn a profit from someone else's basic human need for shelter and whether the government should be lining the pockets of private landlords through housing benefit payments.

If we think this doesn't concern us because our own DC will be 'fine', we have another think coming.

@EveSix

yep, it's all down to private LL. The state of the world economy, lack of boarder control, pandemic, the roads... ALL down to private LL.

Thanks all for the thoughts. For those commenting on the rate, she asked for £17p/h, is in line with the rates of other cleaners advertising and a quick sense check on the street and school whatsapps this seemed to be the going rate. Having said that I will definitely consider upping her rate. In relation to leaving food out this is a good idea although she won't even accept a cup of tea when offered and seems to live on coke and cigarettes.

Regarding paying her cash (I pay straight into her bank account) the onus isn't on me to ensure she's paying tax.

I think £17 per hour is generous. I know many near me who pay c£14. Personally I pay £18 and would not be inclined to pay any more than that.

If you live in Wimbledon and you know people paying £14 an hour, that's modern day slavery. It's not enough for minimum wage equivalent.
Once tax, pension, and sick pay alternatives are taken into consideration, someone self employed should be charging around £20 an hour.

@YeahComeOnThen
What are you talking about!?
How are you extrapolating your list of imagined gripes from my view on the rental market?

@determinedtomakethiswork

Living and working here cash in hand illegally is not something I would support, no.

Paying a low wage to illegals is really quite disgusting.

What are you uncomfortable with, I don’t understand. She’s worked for you for a year but you feel worried because her circumstances could be more awful than you thought and her potential poverty makes you feel threatened, but the week before you were fine. Is that what you mean?

£17 an hour is fine, that's average around here (east London). Most people earning at that level, which is better than many retail or agency cleaning jobs, either claim top up benefits for housing or live in a shared house.

I would just continue to pay what you are paying and let her sort out her own situation, which I am sure she is well able to do.

Are you sure it was her home? Could it have been a pop up medical facility at an overstretched hospital?

I pay £18 which I think is ample. Talk of £25 is ludicrous.

I don't think an extra £1 an hour will help. 🙄

But even if you paid her £30 per hour, it still probably won't help her situation, especially if her husband isn't working.

But if someone like her husband works for cash in hand jobs, and there's an accident, this is what happens, there is no record of you and no insurance.

I know. Ridiculous post.

If there were no private LL’s who would people rent from? Because there sure as hell isn’t enough social housing to go around.

LL’s are selling up in droves due to increasing loopholes they have to jump through - it’s not worth it. Meaning even less properties available in the rental sector.

It never ceases to amaze me that LL’s are expected to rent out their properties for free/no profit. I wonder if posters such as EveSix would be willing to do that?

So you're encouraging illegal behaviour?!

Foreigners not paying tax is a huge issue in this country, and that includes the top of the food chain non-Dom billionaires as well.

If someone works for cash-in-hamd jobs then fine, but when things go wrong, (like with an accident her husband had) then companies won't want to know. There probably won't even be any record of him working there.

So, let's have some reform for foreign workers, they come here on a working visa, above board, are registered and pay tax. And if they can't do it, and things go wrong, well, it's too bad. We are not liable for them. Harsh, but true.