Two questions for experienced effective, organised cleaners please; could really do with your expert advice please!

[Latticeallure88]

Question One:
How many hours roughly a week would it take to look after a 460 metre squared house over five floors please?

Three main rooms on each floor plus two little rooms. Plus front door and outer windows of facade plus some decorative metalwork. Tall and thin. Lots of stairs. Old house - difficult to clean. Including all housekeeping tasks: tidying, cleaning, decluttering, organising, all laundry, all food shopping and cooking and clearing up and cleaning windows inside and out. Two/three meals a day. Three adults wfh and another young adult coming and going. House quite untidy and cluttered ATM after twenty years of family living!

Plus preparatory tasks for second home (mainly washing bed linen and prepping meals) weekly in summer and fortnightly in winter?

Question two:
If you were to start cleaning and clearing and decluttering this house from scratch, if you were doing so 3 hours a day, roughly how long would it take you?

Asking for me: not a professional cleaner! I'm late fifties, not particularly fit ATM, with mild osteo-arthritis. (Well I will be doing bulk of it myself but will be contracting out some cleaning once house is back in better state.) Owing to other commitments, I can only clean about 3/4 hrs a day, 4 days a week.

And yes, other adults will be joining in!

Thank you!

Anyone please? I'd really appreciate some advice as I need to work out what is possible and what is not!

Apologies. I think I made the op too specific.

I just wanted a rough idea of how long this should be taking me!

Are you sure of those sizes?

If it’s helpful my house is very large (about 500 square metres). Cleaner comes for 8 hours a week and really could do with 10 hours.

That doesn’t include windows, tidying, decluttering, shopping, cooking and all those other household tasks you’ve listed.

My guess for full housekeeping including grocery shopping, cooking and laundry would be about 3 days a week if the house was already tidy and organised.

That doesn’t include the stuff for the second home.

Yes I am sure of the sizes.

Thank you so much Cloudtree that is incredibly helpful.

@Latticeallure88

If it helps - I used to have a big house - not as big as yours and no longer but if you can afford it it I would

1. get a proper window cleaner to do inside and out and e.g. mirrors etc

2. Decluttering is either your job or get someone round to help you

3. decide whether you want a housekeeper type person or divide the jobs - so e.g. have a cleaner 3 says a week who will do laundry as well or have a proper cleaner and then get someone to do ironing laundry etc

4. Grocery shopping ( depending on where you live can be done by Ocado or Tesco or Sainsbury delivery )

5 storey house needing to be majorly decluttered I reckon a month if everyone is one board ( given some WFH so not full time everyone )

Once you get rid of stuff I suspect it will become easier to keep on top of it.

Thank you so much BasiliskStare, I really appreciate that advice.

Yes, finding a decent window cleaner is more realistic I think. I will put that on the priority list.

And that is sound advice about getting someone to do regular cleaning leaving me free to declutter. That has been the problem really; there has been too many "every day chores" and decluttering has taken a back seat.

I do have a major grocery delivery 3 or 4 times a year for non perishables, but I could do it more regularly I suppose.

And that is very useful about it taking a month to declutter.

Thank you.

You need a major declarer first. The less stuff gathering dust or causing obstructions, the easier and more efficient it will be to regularly clean.

@Latticeallure88 I do a grocery delivery once a fortnight - I still have to pop out for stuff but it stops the "big shop" - 3 or 4 times a year I reckon doesn't even touch the sides in the sense of saving time for household stuff. & if all are WFH you can choose a cheap delivery time.

A month I reckon is OK to declutter but everyone in the house needs to be on board. Otherwise it will be the same in 6 months time . Bin bags and boxes for everyone to put bin stuff / charity shop stuff in.

I wish you well - I started getting rid of stuff - did n't like it - but my goodness once I got going - it felt great . I actually am going to do another one over January so if you want to keep in touch please do - I reckon I got rid of 75 % of our stuff - but things creep in & I am going to do another round

Regarding "cooking" - Do you want an evening meal prepared for 4 people, 7 days a week? Are you happy to have things batch cooked and left for next day, or frozen?

You might do better getting food delivered from somewhere like Cook, and cook from frozen 3 times a week. It's good food and plenty of choice. You could outsource the task of purchasing the food delivery, and buying additional food and supplies from Ocado, to whoever you employ. You would set up a new email address which you both would share access to; set up a new Bank current account and provide the details to the housekeeper; then give them a weekly budget to spend for your family's food. As you share the Email address you can BOTH log into Ocado so you can add extras like deodorant or a bunch of flowers, see how much the shopping list is, and make sure the Current Account has enough money in it.

It probably isn’t a good plan until you’re decluttered but once you are I do a housekeeping shop every year. It’s really helpful when you have a large house to manage (and space).

I buy all cleaning products in bulk, bin bags for large bins and litter bins, light bulbs, batteries, chargers, matches, candles (including day to day use scented candles), washing up liquid and dishwasher tablets, dishwasher salt etc, cleaning cloths if I need them (although I tend to use rags), all laundry products including replacement pegs etc, houseplant feed, hoover bags, hand soap for bathrooms, room diffusers.

I also bulk buy pet food and go through the pantry to top up longer term supplies.

Plus I keep a cupboard in the boot room containing jars of the paint for each room so that I can easily touch up marks that appear.

It’s time consuming running a big house (and I outsource the main weekly cleaning and windows). It’s helpful to have dedicated and organised spaces though.

Thank you again to everyone who has replied!

Absolutely wafflieversatile thanks, and I love your n-name!

Thank you again Cloudtree you sound v organized indeed! Gosh the size of your annual housekeeping shop must be huge!! It does make sense though when you have the space! I keep a large pantry and keep a large store of cleaning materials and essentials too but not quite on your scale! . The paint tip is a great idea, thank you!

Thank you NotTheGrinchAgain for the detailed and helpful food prep. model. One of the other adults in the house (not me thank heavens!) is going to be taking over quite a bit of the food shopping and cooking while I focus on the house, so I think we have that covered , but good to know in case that doesn't work out for some reason!

And last but not least, thank you again BasiliskStare yes I am going to organise on-line grocery shopping more frequently. And wow, getting rid of 75 % of your stuff is amazing! That's a huge achievement! Not everyone is on board here ATM but I am hoping they will become so once the process starts; I am going to be ruthless! And thanks, yes, I would like to stay in touch. I like the book "Decluttering at the speed of life by Dana K White" and I am finding it quite helpful in terms of method, so we'll see how we go.

My cupboards and drawers are already are quite tidy; but there's a lot of "stuff" floating around for which we don't have proper storage. Obviously I am going to reduce that in volume before I decide how or where it should be stored and only then if it's essential!

The plan is:
January = massive tidy up/chuck out January and get all clothes and laundry under control
February (and as much of March as necessary) = declutter the entire house properly
I'm clearing as much work and extra-curricular time as I can this spring to make time for it.

Good luck to everyone who is doing the same! I feel quite inspired at the moment thanks to everyone's help on here and it's quite bright sunshine where I am, which makes a huge difference, so having been out on a very long dog walk this morning, I am going to make a start after lunch today!

not sure on m2 sizes but we have a three storey five bed / three bath family home, two adults two teens, large kitchen diner and two downstairs reception rooms. we outsource the cleaning and pay £60 flat rate for the house however long she stays, includes all inside windows (not outside - window cleaner every 8 weeks or so for that at £25 for the house) she also cleans the inside of the fridge and the oven on occasion.

food: weekly ocado delivery, meal plan ruthlessly to keep on top of costs.

washing: heated airer set up almost permanently in study, probably five washes a week maybe a few more.

beds: change every other week, teens strip / change their own but I do the actual laundry as we are tight on drying space so I have to time it right (can't bear having laundry drying around the house also it's not great for damp / breathing in)

decluttering will help a lot, then I would outsource the cleaning if you can afford to. it makes a massive difference to us and I have realised I'd rather pay more for someone to do a thorough job than a cheaper per-hour rate and dust bunnies piling up where I then discover them (and feel cross!)

MrsKDB thank you very much indeed for your advice which is much appreciated. Our homes and our routines sound very similar!

I would love someone to clean the fridge & the oven!
We also do family bed changing once a fortnight.
And we also have an issue with clothes drying funnily enough!

That's a good idea about a flat rate for a cleaner. I imagine you have to stay very on top of what has and hasn't been done though and have a realistic idea of what is possible in the time. Do you give her a list of jobs?

The issue here is that it's the whole house you want to sort and as such, it becomes a monster of a job.

I'd categorise the rooms. So, you give yourself a target of all bedrooms. Then, you categorise by task. Of, for example, there are loads of books on the bedrooms, do all of the bedroom books in one go. One trip to the charity shop with all the books you're not keeping. And so on.

Kitchen is its own job.

As for the random stuff, scoop it all up into bags or boxes so you actually see how much stuff you have to sort. Dedicate one room to be your sorting room.

Then, tackle a bag or box at a time. Bin bag, charity bag and keep bag or box. When you've don't the bag, go and put the keep like properly away. File those documents.

And keep on like that. The joy is that someone else could also go and tackle a bag.

In terms of maintenance cleaning, agree to have a tidy up the day the day before cleaning.

Thanks JuneOsborne that's really helpful. I have tried the Maria Kondo type of decluttering i.e. gathering all things of one together, like books for example, but it just doesn't work here because of the height of the house and the endless stairs. It's exhausting trying to get the same thing on one floor because they are spread everywhere! I will try as much as possible but it's not practical overall. I agree though that larger categories like "all the bedrooms" might work but even though are spread widely!

I'd highly recommend decluttering first (look up Stacey Solomons decluttering programme on bbc iplayer: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00116n4- it's inspired me massively recently) and then getting in an industrial cleaning company for a deep clean (they'll do your carpets, windows, oven, fridge, mattresses, etc.) and once you've got that done, you'll have a better idea of what tasks you need most help with.

Good luck.

I get that all books might be too much, so just do bedroom books. If the bedrooms are too spread out, just do 1st floor bedroom books. And so on.

It sounds like a massive task. I'd break it down as much as possible. I couldn't do all clothes in one go for example, but I could do my clothes. And so on.

Yes that's a good idea to break it down in to manageable chunks, thanks JuneOsborne . It also helps with the "mental" challenge too; stops one being overwhelmed.

Thanks Toddybell I don't have iPlayer where I am but will definitely think about getting a company in to do a once off mega clean! Although. a friend did that once and she had a few bits of jewellery stolen, so I'm a bit wary! However, as long as I find a company with a good reputation, I guess that can be the "reward" at the end of the decluttering process, something to focus on!

I have found flylady to be good. Your January declutter is great and the idea of a big 'purge' is very satisfying and effrctive but flylady (or similar routine maintains the declutter afterwards, if that makes sense). The website itself is a bit annoying but the principle is great. Building up little habits every day. You have possibly heard of it, op, so i will be quick but there are three layers, routines, basic weekly plan and zones. You start off with routines, add bwp and then zones. I follow The Secret Slob on YouTube and find her to be very motivating and realistic.

Zones is decluttering. Home is divided into 5 areas and you declutter/ deep clean 15 minutes four days per week in each area every day going forward. Little and often maintains the decluttering. Once you are completely decluttered, you just clean.

In a house your size and depending on other commitments, good to have a professional cleaner too if you can!

To add, don't beat yourself up if you don't manage it every day, if i skip a day when work/life gets busy, i just "jump back in" when i can. A little is better than nothing.

@Latticeallure88 I have a big and stairy house too (though not quite as big as yours) and gathering everything in one place really didn’t work for me- too many trips up and down stairs gathering that no energy left for the actual sorting! The method that has worked best for me is one room, one corner (or surface or drawer or shelf) at a time.

You said your drawers and cupboards are already well organised but are you like my mum with her very well organised 30+ rulers, 15 hole punches, 18 slotted spoons, 600 tea lights, 5 drawers of jumpers…? I’m also guilty with my glass cupboards - I have two wall cupboards just for glasses! They’re beautifully arranged and I have glasses for every drink you could possibly want but if I got rid of some that could create a whole cupboard to store other stuff (I don’t need that space right now though so it’s all good ). Just you mentioned you have stuff without a home so you may need to go through your already organised species to see if there’s anywhere you can create space.

In terms of daily management I try to tidy every day, always do dishes and leave kitchen clear in the evenings etc. Load of washing every day and the previous day’s put away. Wipe over loos and sinks while I’m in there. Quick hoover of the downstairs.

Then I have set days to clean each room (dust, thorough hoover, wipe door handles and light switches, clean any fingerprints off windows etc). I have lots more rooms than days of the week so some rooms are bundled together. I go around one room a week on rotation for a deeper clean/declutter so each room gets done probably 3 times a year.

It does take a lot of work to maintain a big house and even just to keep on top of the basics- just mopping the main living areas takes ages for example (and it is a bit of a bone of contention in our house!).

My main tip is to consider the hall/stairs as a room in it’s own right and dedicate time to those as well as other rooms.

Wow that sounds like quite a house to be tackling @Latticeallure88 good luck! I have a reasonably big five bed detached. It’s amazing how much stuff our home contains. I’m on the decluttering one thing a day threads and also use the Dana White suggested method and questions when I have the time to do an area properly. Agree with others that it is much easier to clean when there is much less stuff around. We had a massive declutter before we moved here but with kids it’s impossible to keep stuff from coming in.

I'd pay to hire a professional declutterer first for a few sessions to get on top of it and get the house working how you want, sort out storage etc, then hire some decent cleaners to do a deep clean all over. Keeping on top of it in a few hours a day should then be more than possible.