Howcome I can declutter several times a week and yet everywhere is still messy ??

[nutcracker]

I don't get where I am going wrong.

nutcracker - the boxes at Ikea are so cheap it's untrue so if one day you get the chance, buy them.

cheers [clink]

Anna you want one?

It's hard., The hardest time of it we had was 3 children under 4, both of us working more than full time and no cleaner because we couldn't afford it.

Once children are older there is less mess and more time and it's easier. What I do is tidy up all the time - I never go upstairs without taking something up which belongs there. it's like litter in the street. If there is none then people are less likely to drop it. So zero tolerance and also not tidying teenagers' bed rooms except may be once a year if they're doing a clear out and need help and leaving those to them (or the cleaner).

I had children to do my housework for me, it didn't work out that way.
I find if I tidy everything up after they've gone to bed and never allow toys downstairs it doesn't get messy really.

Tiny your being mean not lettin them play downstairs

Are you serious??
I'm mean because I don't allow toys downstairs???
They have plenty of room in their bedrooms and if they ever do bring any downstairs they just moan that the other one is touching their stuff.
They do drawing/colouring any arty type stuff downstairs, and they play make beleive down here, they just dont bring their toys down.
I don't see the problem.

hmm Tiny I am with you on this one, not sure whether Gok was being serious or not but, well, woteva!!!

I do somehow allow toys down here (not intentionally, but you know) and then have to pack them all up into carrier bags to take back to his room. They sit there for ages before I manage to sort it out.

It's the only way to keep the floor visible downstairs. Just wish I was better organised than I am about it!!

Actually, I love having my daughter's toys around and about - lots of them are so beautiful to look at. I chop and change what's in our dining/playroom according to my mood . At the moment I have her doll's house (a beautiful wooden castle) and her farm (also wood, with a red roof and doors) out, and the little Schleich animals that go with it. And all the dolls' house furniture is so beautiful too - most of it I bought in Switzerland when I was 10/11/12 and kept carefully in boxes and have passed on. Sometimes we have Lego creations... or the dolls ironing board and clothes horse. Or I'll get the wigwam out and she plays with that. And there are always tutus and ballet shoes and tiaras knocking about.

Yes, but that's not most people's real family life. Once you have a huge number of the little horrors the toys lose their decorative appeal and you have a force in numbers up against you and a rising tide of mess and toys.

True Xenia, also it's when you go from DD's pretty little toys to DS's lego all over the place!!
There is nothing more painful than treading on lego.

I think that's fairly normal jj and before we know it we'll be over 50 and the house will be silent and empty.

When the twins turned about 6 or 7 I moved all their toys to be kept upstairs so that helped and some rooms I keep tidy but not their bed rooms. Just wait until you've 3 hulking great stroppy teenagers leaving plates and bits of food all over the place (Anna will now tell us her step sons are as tidy as anything but most teenagers aren't)

Xenia, my DD is 7, and I expect her to tidy her room but she is terrible with it, seems the mess turns invisible when I mention it to her. Were yours the same???
I did actually say, when I stopped any toys coming downstairs, that I would not tidy her room, but I have to, at least once a week because she just doesn't do tidy to the same standard.

Well - we certainly don't have food and plates anywhere but in the kitchen - unless we've had lots of people round for a meal and eaten in the dining room, in which case it all gets cleared up immediately.

No-one in our house helps themselves to food outside mealtimes - it really wouldn't cross anyone's mind to do so. Wo why would there be plates and food strewn around?

The French are better in that respect. one of the problems the UK has and one reason we're all so fat is we graze all day. Teenagers are some of the worst for that particularly if they get up at 1pm and sleep go to bed around 4am as my son often does.

When I was a little girl we were not allowed food except at meal times, nothing, not even an apple and interestingly we never asked for it. I suppose I knew what my mother's answer might be.

Xenia's right - it's a cultural thing. People in France don't snack all day in the way they do in the UK, and mealtimes are much more (and better) structured, so they cover all the food groups (including sugar/sweet things), reducing the temptation to eat at other times. Around here there aren't any fat people at all.

It was the same when I was growing up - I never ate outside mealtimes.

Children have goûter (tea) when they come back from school - a pain au chocolat or some baguette and nutella, typically, with a glass of milk or water, seated around the kitchen table. This is a meal in France. It dies out when children are about 8/9.

The mug is an unknown piece of crockery in France.

People drink water during the day - often they have bottle of mineral water at their desks. I have mineral water in the fridge and anyone can help themselves to a glass in the kitchen. And then put the glass in the dishwasher.