Following on from my questions about cleaners thread, DH is disagreeing we need one

[hunkermunker]

Original thread here

I've threatened him with "stealth cleaner" who I employ without telling him. But I can see that this would lead to divorce, so I'm not keen on this idea.

He says that people where he works have them and they run round cleaning frantically the night before the cleaner comes otherwise the cleaner turns their nose up.

(This is not a thread about why women have cleaners, or to call me a lazy mare, btw - DH and I have one day a week together and I do NOT want to spend it cleaning (which is DH's suggestion - he thinks we can both do it and get the boys to help - they're 3.6 and 21mo), however, neither do I want to either have to do it myself AND pay somebody to do it)

And I know cleaners are people too, Desi

It's a thread about negotiation tactics with DH, right? How to win him round so that he and you are both delighted with your joint decision to employ a cleaner?

Yes, Anna, got it in one!

how about suggesting you have one 4 times a week

then he will go "we do not need one 4 TIMES A WEEK!!!!"

you say 3

he repeats we do not need one 3 times

you say 2

he repeats

then you say, oh you are so wise and clever, we only need one one day a week don't we?

he is bamboozled and thinks he thought of it and agrees

OK, so we are clear on the desired outcome...

Tactics: you need DH to think that the cost of the cleaner is very small compared to the benefit of the free time you and he and your DSs will have together... it's about changing his mindset...

Have you asked him outright if cleaning is the most important thing that you do together as a family?

Hi, I made sure I employed a cleaner who understood that tidying was part of the job, absolutely, since the idea is to decrease the stress involved, not increase it/add additional work

Is that his only objection? In which case do the above, sorted! Mind you, there was a long thread from me ages ago where I didn't negoitiate this in advance = disaster but turned around with the help of mumsnet.

I like it, OO, I'll try it!

I have sort of said that, Anna - said I don't want to spend the one family day we have cleaning - but not asked outright, as you said. I'm having this conversation by text with him... [unwise]

(thinking out loud IYKWIM)

You need to get DH to see that cleaning is right down the list of priorities of family activities - so you need to push him into thinking of all kinds of better things you could be doing together so that cleaning gets pushed down the list

Do you earn more per hour than a cleaner would cost? One of my arguments (not that I needed an argument, more justification to myself) is that cleaner costs £x an hour wheras I charge £y an hour when I'm at work.

Does he object morally or financially, BTW?

WWW, how does your cleaner know where to tidy things to?

Previous cleaner showed her where to tidy things when she did a handover. But it's fairly clear:

dirty clothes/clothes on floor = washing basket/machine

dishes = dishwasher or cupboard

clean clothes in basket = hung up

children's toys in their rooms

books, on bookshelf

bills in a pile on worksurface

anything clearly rubbish, i.e. paper plate, say, left on table = bin

If you need 4 hrs a week - say you will pay for two hours by saving the money (make up anything) he can do his two hours cleaning with the children whilst you go out for a coffee.

But our clothes are v simple - 1 hanging rail for each person

2 drawers for underwear, 1 mine, 1 dhs

toy boxes in childresn rooms

bookshelves where books like

cupboards, pretty obv where things go

my cleaner leaves anything she doen;t know where to put in a neat pile on the table, I pout it away after she's been (or more commonaly leave it there for another week)

Oh, KC! I love your style! ROFL! I'll have a lie-in on a Saturday morning (although to be fair, I often do go back to sleep after bfing DS2...I'm crosser than DH without sleep ).

Oh, he's really fab, btw - I've never complained about him on here - I'm not really complaining now, just to make that Very Clear

But I just want to have fewer jobs to do at home and more time in a vacuumed environment!

Anna, I think his objection is he thinks it would be a waste of money to employ somebody to do something we'd end up doing the night before she came - although quite why his colleagues keep employing cleaners if they're doing it all themselves is beyond me...!

well if it was me I would take this as an opportunity to have a clear out - you mentioned on the other thread decluttering?

then every evening when children are in bed, put stuff back where it belongs, takes 15 mins tops in our house

then when the cleaner does come, you will have a straight house for her to clean and not have to do the frantic clean up your dh is worried about

I clean Mon and Fri morning, rest of the week stuff just gets put back where it belongs

suggest it as a big project for the house, make money for Xmas on ebay clear out!! , would dh buy that?

I have a cleaner on Mondays and inevitably I do preparation work, like washing clothes so that they are ready to be ironed, on Sunday. I clear up a bit too, though I mostly do that when she's actually here, because I'm here too and that's how I've organised my Monday - she irons while I tidy, she cleans while I put clothes away etc.

So - I kind of agree that having a cleaner concentrates your mind and you do do some prep work to make it more efficient. But the cleaner still adds loads of value in addition to the added value of actually making you tidy up once a week.

Hunker, we had a cleaner 3 times a week, 2 hours on Mon, Weds and Friday. It meant she more or less kept on top of the washing too.

It was lovely (we've stopped having her in a bid to save deposit on a house but now we argue more aobut chores, sigh)

And we paid £8 an hour

I do need to have a clear-out - it's having the inclination to do it once the children are in bed. It will be a bit better when DS2 is in his own room (Saturday night, after carpet fitted on Saturday afternoon - yay!)- I can tackle the cupboards in our room then and we can decorate it.

Wrt eBay - not sure we've got much to sell that wouldn't cause more hassle than it was worth. Although have found sunshades for a double buggy and a single buggy in bit of recent clearing out, but not best to sell them now as it's sodding winter!

I do NOHTING in advance of my cleaner coming (except leave some money), poor woman I have no idea why she still comes.

would he buy 'We may not need one but I would like one - think of it as a treat for me'
or
'I'll pay her'

Or would he buy

"WE FUCKING NEED A CLEANER THIS HOUSE IS A TIP AND IT'S DOING MY HEAD IN AND WORK IS A PITA AND I WILL EXPLODE IF I DON'T GET SOME STRESS RELIEF OF THE CLEANING KIND"

Maybe?

Why's it up to him anyway? Can't you just get one?

KC, how far does she travel?! She sounds fab!

MrsB, I think he's getting that idea - he just says he'll do it all, but that's not the point. He'll wear himself out and it doesn't solve the problem of us only having a finite amount of time and still not keeping on top of it all.