Moving Forward With Minimalism

[MinimalistMommi]

This is a new thread following on from the previous 'm' thread on Good Housekeeping!

All Minimalists or aspiring minimalists welcome!

Hi everyone,
harriet I'm not really a regular, only found the thread a couple of weeks ago, but I'd also enjoy discussing the philosophies of minimalism. I don't know a lot about it but I've been applying what I've learnt on this thread and from the links posted and it is really helping me keep my life less chaotic and more fulfilling so I'd love to learn/discuss more.

On the decluttering front I've filled another bag of toys and clothes for charity, woohoo!

Hope you don't mind me mentioning it but what are you all doing re Christmad and keeping the gifts to a minimum? I told my parents not to bother with gifts, my mum said she will bake some cookies and make us something for the house instead - she's really good with craft so that's sorted. But I fear offending other family members by either requesting no gifts or something specific. It just seems pointless though to be clearing the house now, only to have it refilled at Christmas. I guess I could give it all some bits to charity. Interested in how others go about Christmas.

creepy I've started to stress about Xmas already!!!

I only buy for a few friends - and this year I am taking us all on a Christmas themed night out in London (also coincidentally slightly philosophical ). Previous years I have made sweets, baked etc.

I have asked DD1's Godfather to consider perhaps combining Birthday/Xmas and taking her to a show/play/musical instead of buying a physical gift and he responded very enthusiastically to the suggestion so hooray!! I would be a lovely way for them to connect and spend time together now DD is getting a little older. So I am hoping that will work out.

Other godparents and inlaws usually buy clothes which is manageable.

My family live far far away so we don't buy gifts as such, though my brother and I are buying my Mum a much needed new TV which is perfect. The DC get a few gifts but usually books or small easily posted items.

Now it's just up to what I get them - eyes large dog and bouncy cow ie gifts from a time when I was out of my freaking mind "before I knew better"

Ooh days out and clothes are really, really good ideas. Thanks BeCool. I hope no one is offended if I suggest it. Last year we had multiples of so many gifts - dd2 had about 5 play handbags! Dd3 had 2 toy vacuums etc. And I don't want a repeat of that this year. Not just for the sake of my sanity but for the givers sake too - don't want them wasting their money.

the amazon wishlist can be really useful for specific books, toys etc that your DC might like. You can direct people there and if they buy it it comes off your wishlist - really useful.

Phew. Thanks so much for all those helpful replies!

I think I'm a comparative minimalist, too. I'd love to go down to the basics - one bowl, plate, mug per person, etc but I can't force Sport to go along with that. I have given away a tonne of stuff in the past year and feel much lighter as a result. I want to start thinking again about what I want to add in - time with friends, getting out into nature, etc.

Hi everyone, how are you all? delasi and arti hope you're both feeling well.

Managed to sort through a couple of kitchen cupboards today and binned a load of out-of-date food, medicine and vitamin supplements. Also found doubles and triples of various things - painkillers, Calpol, Olbas Oil etc where I'd 'lost' them and replaced them . Determined not to let stuff like this happen again. I now have an actual medicine cupboard rather than bits of medicine shoved all over the kitchen.

More eBay stuff sold tonight :) Stuff that didn't sell being packed up for charity.

Stalled here as other things have been happening - I actually cleared the ironing pile which ij this house ks an achievement.

On the minus side we have had deliveries of ds's medical stuff. One set of items comes every three months and the other every four weeks. I could do with an extra room to store the stuff. The pile of boxes is taller than me!

Hi everyone. I am proper poorly with a really vicious cold, blocked sinuses ( helping my ear no end! ) I'm even cancelling some work which I hardly ever do. I'm trying today to "just get on with the next thing" which is going to be going to local smalltown to go to the bank, take back library books and do some essential food shopping. Thak you for good wishes creepy/shining and Harriet

Consequently, not much minimalising though I might try and drop off a bag or "items for rag" when I'm in town.

Arti, that sounds horrible...

Sometimes less isn't more. Just printed off all the files I could relating to work-in-progress because I just can't get my head round it all digitally. Turns out I've done loads more writing than I thought. Now to get it into some sort of order...

Since philosophising is okay/encouraged, I thought I'd share the book that helped me most. Not minimalism per we, but a behavioural economics book that explains why we get overwhelmed by too much.

'The Paradox of Choice: Why More is Less' by Barry Schwartz.

Totally readable, accessible, and convincing.

Thanks for the well wishes Had more tests today so we'll see, feeling a bit better so trying to push on with the usual stuff (minimalism is currently done in my mind!).

arti Oh dear, you need and Hope you feel better soon.

Kegels It's interesting you mentioning Behavioural Economics, I think about it a lot as I may have studied it at uni and it really does change the way you think about things. I shall contribute more on the subject later when I'm less tired and hungry

Hello thread... I was on here a bit in the summer, but life has been busy last couple of months.

I'm going to catch up reading later, but just wanted to say be cool that your large dog and bouncy cow links really made me laugh!

I'm interested in the simplicity parenting ideas too Harriet we confiscated the Wii and Nintendo's at the end of August. I'll post again later....after a trip to ikea

Downfall, tell me more! I don't want to banish screens entirely but I want encouragement to drastically reduce their presence in my house!

Harriet I find long or detailed documents difficult to read online too.

I can't comment too much on the "banish the screens" debate as I don't have children but I do know from being on holiday with my friend that her son's behaviour seems to deteriorate in direct proportion to the length of time he has been "plugged into a screen" and it does seem to be highly addictive.

The other thing I would take notice is the studies that have shown that using screens later in the evenings reduces the amount of melatonin you produce. This affects your ability to sleep and also studies of shift workers have shown that having reduced levels of melatonin for long periods of time (eg years) has been linked with all sorts of negative health effects. I do try not to use the computer immediately before bed myself except when I forget

There was also a Canadian study that seemed to show that under-twos who were allowed to watch lots of TV ( 2hrs + per day) were doing less well than their peers educationally at age 10. I can believe this as from what I know of child development, 3D movement and interaction is really essential for good brain development and TV is so 2D and passive physically.

My suggestion would be that if you have younger children (eg under 10s) establishing a routine where screen time is very controlled and limited might be helpful as then it may be easier to keep limits on it when they are teenagers! I'd also try and prevent children from using screens (other than TV where you don't sit so close) for the hour before bedtime so melatonin production isn't affected.

How on earth you do this without getting "mean mummy of the millennium" awards though is rather beyond me!

Delasi Thanks for the cake and coffee. I'm still feeling pretty poorly. Currently trying to get a bit of housework done, but it isn't really happening!. I did manage to get out to smalltown yesterday so the bag of rag has gone to the chazza. Mum arrives in a week so the spare doom has to be tackled as soon as I've had my fill of messing around on MN !

Downfall I'm hoping to go to IKEA soon too ( disclaimer - I do actually need a new bathroom bin as the lid has broken on the old one) Did I mention I'm a relative minimalist?

delasi/kegels what is behavioral economics? - it sounds interesting.

be cool I can remember from being a child that there is something very special about oversize toys so having one or two around is probably not too bad! Even if large amounts of pink plastic doesn't exactly channel the "monk's cell" school of minimalism!

arti (and anyone else who's interested!) Behavioural economics is a relatively new study of economics that essentially looks at including human behaviour into economic modelling and understanding transactions. In brief, economics tends to view all people as being 100% logical and rational and making transactional decisions on a purely cost-benefit basis. Sheer common sense tells us that this is not actually the case! However whimsy is not something easily incorporated into a mathematical model so this new strand of economic study has been developing over several decades now, alongside greater research into psychology, to try and include at least some of the basic aspects of human factors in decision-making.

Whilst actually studying the redefined models may not be everyone's cup of tea, the years of research (both economic and psychological) has resulted in a lot of interesting conclusions on how people view money. There are a number of books out there dealing with the topic that are very accessible and quite interesting, and it overlaps a lot with things like market research and consumer habits (one book I was recommended but haven't read is Consumerology). Think along the lines of Freakonomics if you've read it (I've been fed a line that everyone read it and it was a huge thing, but I may just hang out with nerds ).

Well. That was a bit dry. Basically there's some really interesting stuff on how we spend and save! Things like how anchoring (eg seeing a higher price then a lower, like in a sale) affects how we value an item, how we compartmentalise money (eg if we buy tickets to a concert, and lose them, we are unlikely to want to buy new tickets, but if we lost the money equivalent to the cost of the tickets it would annoy us but is much less likely to affect our spending habits - because in our minds, we have 'spent' the money 'allocated' to the concert.

Also apparently the cheapest wine on a restaurant wine list is the second cheapest in terms of quality. Statistically people mainly opt for the second cheapest wine thinking it will be a bit better but affordable, so many restaurants make a larger margin by making the cheapest bottle (to them) the second cheapest (to the customer). We had an ex-restaurateur in my class who confirmed that was what he used to do.

In terms of my own progress, all still on hold here house-wise but progress in my mind! Went out today and whilst out I looked in a favoured shop of mine which is having a sale, and I'd also been sent a voucher for an extra 20% off the sale. Oh, the desire to buy so much stuff, it was such a good price! BUT - I held fast. I thought carefully about cuts and colours and what would suit me, and it was surprisingly hard to not pick up some of the stuff despite knowing it wasn't my shape or colour. But I did it! And I now have 3 really nice new tops, at fantastic prices (less than £3-4 each!). Prior to that I had done my massive streamline of the wardrobes and I have actual gaps in my tops and cardis drawer (just the one drawer!), I've spent the last 1-2 months choosing between the plain black top or the plain grey top... so I knew what I wanted and they are things that I will wear, and like, and are good quality so should hopefully last well

Delasi, thanks so much for explaining a bit about behavioural economics. Really fascinating stuff! Good to hear about your intentional shopping too. I need to get a new top for work because I only have two cardies and one smart jumper at the moment - I'm reluctantly retiring 2 from teaching wear because of unmendable hole/unshiftable stain. I like the idea of going shopping with a cut and colour in mind.

I have a black Hugo Boss suit bought back in the age of affluence that needs to be altered. The legs and arms were always a bit too long. But black makes me look ill and I'm not a suit person. I'm more of a blue/grey/pink pastel person. Is there any point whatsoever in keeping the suit or should I try to sell it? Hmm.

Sell the suit!

The behavioural economics sounds really interesting. There are lots of books on it at the library that look good.

Downfall I am also interested to hear about your screen reduction. It's going well here.

Tim Harford is v accessible on behavioural economics. I like reading about it because it helps me realise the tricks my mind is playing on me when I make decisions....shopping in particular but also other choices.

Screen time...my kids behaviour is worse when they have too much screen time. I try to limit to half an hour in the morning and half an hour in the evening but none if they are too busy. The kids are 8 and 6 and respect it, they understand why...obviously they still moan. . My husband doesn't really see the problem and would happily let them veg all day.

A key to making it work in our house is to provide the alternative activity. This can be just paper and paints already on the table, or it can be the box of Lego out on the floor, but it helps everyone be more cheerful about turning the screen off.

My daughter is pretty good about self-directing but my son really needs pointing in the direction of something to do, so I work with that. (And, yes, I understand the 'kids need boredom and not being told what to do so they get creative' but it JUST DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT with my son a lot of the time.)

I'm wondering about this screen time thing. DS is only 10mo, so early enough to start good habits I think but also in need of constant attention/entertainment. When I get really busy (I do a lot of work from home, it's non-stop at the moment ) then, honestly, Sesame Street is my friend. It's the only TV show that he looks at when the TV comes on and it will keep him happy for 10-20mins whilst I get on with the mountain of work.

I'm in the middle on this one then, because on the one hand I don't want him to become all focused on the TV - I have a friend whose toddler constantly wants the TV on, I would rather DS isn't the same in a year or two - but on the other hand I don't see a problem with some TV. I haven't been able to find 'guidance' anywhere because I just find two camps: people who leave the TV on all of the time, and people who think the TV should only be on if you're there talking about the show with your child. I want middle ground! Fwiw he is quite happy entertaining himself, and I like that, I like that he can play independently and isn't that bothered by the TV. For example, he has just watched some Sesame Street for about 10mins. He no longer cares about it and is currently playing with a Vtech game thing that he has... and is now moving on to the stacking rings. This is pretty typical for him.

What do I do?! I'm thinking back to my own childhood, I would usually watch cartoons in the morning, and occasionally I would have a film on during the day, the rest of the time I would be playing with toys, jigsaw puzzles, soft animals, dolls, colouring in. My parents played and read with me, but I spent a lot of my time playing independently as I was quite happy to just get on with it. Perhaps this is a good-ish model? When I was growing up (the 90s!) there was a fair amount of TV available to watch but we (society) hadn't quite reached the point that we're at now where there are 24/7 channels dedicated, eg, to kids shows, films, etc, and also on-demand TV. We don't have an aerial, all of our TV is on-demand, so we have to choose to put a specific programme or film on. I think that makes it easier to not just have 'background' TV.

We couldn't back off from screens altogether as it's actually one of our few things that we do together (!) - that is, watch a film, or a show we really like. We have constant computer screens which is unavoidable due to work - it's currently the trade-off with not having to work outside of the home all of the time and DS gets to spend all day, every day with at least one parent and that makes me happy. We do go out, usually we walk around browsing and such, I think I would like to do more different walks though - go to places we don't usually walk to.

Hmm...

'Do together' as in DH and I.

harriet another vote for selling the suit!

Delasi, what you describe sounds pretty perfect for your baby. It's nowhere near constant which is great. And the fact that he will happily just watch one short programme and move on is good. I don't really think that you need to be sitting with him to talk about the programme TBH - then he would just have two stimuli at once anyway. It sounds ideal if you can just stick on one show and have a quick burst of housework, and then turn it off again.

FWIW DH and I usually have a DVD on in the evenings as we are currently far too exhausted to do anything else, but I'm happy that we have got the DCs' screen time sorted as their minds are still developing and it's far more important. I daresay some would say it's a bit hypocritical, but I don't think adults and children should always have the same rules!

fuzzpig Feel much better about it now - I think sometimes the world of MN skews my views! It's only other MNers who I've known to say that TV is evil and you must discuss alongside if you plan on having one on whilst the baby is awake otherwise your children will be developmentally delayed until they're 10yo and may never fully recover.

Or something like that

If only it was to do housework though! I need to occupy him from time to time due to the endless studying/typing/documents etc needing attention... At least reading week is coming up and I can try to catch up on everything I've missed so far

Back to the house. I have put half of Rightful Owner's things in a very visible place - inconvenient for us atm, but, make it hard to miss and I am booking them in for this week and that half has to be dealt with at a minimum