Fledglings Remember to FLY through November...

[BlueEyeshadow]

If your house is a mess and you are strugging with C.H.A.O.S. (can't have anyone over syndrome) and S.T.U.F.F. (something that undermines family fun) then this is the thread where we (loosely) follow the step-by-step Flylady housekeeping system (in our own, unique, relaxed style) with lots of chat, support and wine along the way.

This little-and-often system is designed so that you can follow a series of steps and routines each day (which gradually become second nature) in weekly designated zones of the house; defining and minimising housework - which in theory should leave you with more time to do other more interesting things instead! At the same time it is intended to reduce that panicky "rabbit in headlights" feeling when you are overwhelmed and everything needs doing all at once. No problem if you miss a day or two; just jump right back in and it will all come around next month again anyway!

We advise not signing up to receive the Flylady e-mails as you will be inundated! All the information you need will be linked here on a daily basis.

From the first of the month, we will be following Flylady's steps and routines using a three-pronged approach (dependent on the stage everyone is at):

• start or repeat baby steps

• repeat baby steps + do 15 mins a day decluttering in the current zone

• reinforce babysteps and do daily missions if you have finished decluttering.

[And if you are really enthusiastic and have finished decluttering - you can go on to detailed deep cleaning in each zone.]

More info here on getting started and Flying lessons. Here's the launch pad for more experienced fledglings. Don't be put off by the barf-tastic language of the site - the underlying system is sound (and you may discover a few of our subversions of the vocabularly along the way).

Many thanks to SC for leading the thread through October (and for such a good OP, which I've blatantly cut and pasted) - - and I'll post the first babysteps and mission tomorrow evening.

All welcome!!

Gossip - I know how you feel, I'm not at all bitter that I am sitting here watching Formula 1 practice sessions instead of Coronation Street, oh no. I will,be avoiding Children in Need for the rest of the evening. What are you crocheting? I am in the middle of a full size granny stripe blanket.

SC - that is so sweet. My parents bought Ds a little set of brushes when he was about 3 but they just got used as weapons .

Well, a fairly restful day today, only managed to lose the DCs once (did I tell you I completely lost DD on the way to school yesterday?) .

Did some light, detailed cleaning (descaled kettle and coffee machine, cleared fridge of magnets and wiped it down, tidied some bookshelves, stripped our bed and put the sheets in the WM).

Mine are watching Children in Need...[but I think it is very good for them to see how lucky they are]

Done
kitchen (badly)
supper - steak and potatoes
took two boys to family therapist, they are like a comedy duo in there I don't what she does to them...maybe it should be called laughter therapy instead We came out with a list of Rules (ds1 broke one immediately we got home )
long walk

dd choir
dd artwork
milkbottles out
bin out
nap this afternoon
recycling
wash in
wash out to dry
wiped table
dw
worktops

SC hope medical issues not oppressing you, and that you can avoid surgery, if you want to.
Whoknows hope this weekend you can firmly do less again

RL is a bit busy at the moment, so haven't been able to keep up with you all, but hope you're all ok.

It's DS2's birthday today, so we were woken at the crack of dawn (4.30 ) for the present opening. Managed to persude the boys to go back to bed for another couple of hours though.

Party at midday.

Thanks for the supportive messages.

We're battling through some difficult conversations at the moment and DH is making a bit of an effort but past experiences tells me it won't last. From his point of view I ask too much of him. I work from home and so 50% of the housework is too much. Please bear in mind I tidy as I go so toys from minding, clearing up after meals are not included in what I propose we spilt on half. But he thinks hoovering, mopping, upstairs, bathroom etc should also be my minding work because these are increased work loads from CMing. Doesn't occur to him that our own 3dc are plenty capable of contributing to the mess!

I casually mentioned that his extra help (as he sees it) could be in exchange for me providing a full time wage for the family plus free childcare for our dc. (ie we both work full time but thanks to me we have no childcare costs so I feel I increase my contribution to the household by doing this). He then says if that's the case maybe I should pay half the bills. WTF!! The bills might come out of his account but my wage goes on food shop, credit card, next account, kids incidentals, Xmas shopping, any cash we want. It all gets spent.

To me it just screams a lack of respect for my career choice. I accept I could be overreacting though. What do you all think? (bear in mind this is my side of the story and he would say it differently) :)

On a preactical note I have decided to get a cleaner in the new year. I haven't told DH yet but that's because he'll poo poo it. Does anyone have any practical tips to this process? I'm going to try hard to declutter well before they start, anything else?

Thanks to you all for hearing me rant. Feel free to scroll past future posts!!

We watched CIN too. DD went to school yesterday in their pyjamas to support the Blue Peter CIN appeal. It was really odd seeing the head teacher at Star Assembly in her bedwear!

Yesterday's list was:

• S/S x 3
• Washing in and hung to dry
• Ironed laundry away
• Make DH's favourite mincemeat cake
• Cook dinner
• Shine sink

The sideboard we ordered has just arrived so I shall be spending the day ensuring DH puts the right screws in the right places!

X post! Morning Toffee :)

And dizzy, good morning! :)

I have got the most bogging cold today, but the house still isn't too bad, and the kids have been up for hours, but they have found something that keeps them in one place for a few hours, which is good. Dp has gone to fetch more stuff to cram in my tiny house, garage, and shed, to be fair it is stuff that will be replacing mine, like his gorgeous black and chrome cooker that will be replacing my silver finish £200 quid cooker that I brought 8 years ago, or his so very comfortable memory foam mattress that will be replacing my second hand mattress that I alone have had for 9 years, and a lush brown carpet to go on my stairs that will go brilliantly with the new wallpaper, and will be replacing the battered hard wearing carpet that I've had for 10 years. So all's good really.

Ds2 has just started with his attitude again, funny how he starts as soon as his dad disappears. I don't know why he does it as soon as he goes, I'm wondering if he's trying to paint me as evil step mum for his dad or something but he will get immediately cheeky, and difficult, and will end up getting sent on the step a lot more than he would do normally because I have counted to 3 that many times because he gets defiant with me. Then his dad will come home to find a miserable kid under the table or stairs because he's in a sulk with me for punishing him. Yet he never does this when his dads here. I can see this being a long day for me.

I think I will spend the day just bitting and bobbing and do some more crochet, by the way whoknows I have 3 works in progress atm and they are all girls blankets and all are very different to each other, I am almost finished on a seafoam blanket, halfway through on a patchwork blanket with completely different patches throughout and have just started a granny patch blanket which will have various styles of granny on, I also have a boys blanket to do but I will hopefully be doing that in the new year, and the after that I have twins to get on with :).

And then after the twins, I might hopefully be able to make a start on my own

Sorry I am not going to read the thread and just going to list dump (probably a lot today). Things here are dreadful, stress going up and up. Ds is not doing great. Fucking awful in fact. Toffee did your ds ever express wish of death as a result of anxiety and did you find something that helped with this?

Need to move late night last night so first things first by the power of the list of 3:
to do:
Shower
breakfast
painkillers and strap knee up

Morning everyone

A very happy birthday to your ds2 Toffee hope you survive the sleep deprivation and the party today and you all have a fab time!!

Slightly despairing here because the (admittedly very little) amount of Flying I managed to do over the past two days has been undone in one evening and half a day by dh and dd [sigh] I'm really wading through treacle atm, not seemingly able to make progress. Energy seems to have deserted me.

Nicknacks - you have my sympathies - it is an incredibly frustrating situation because I think many blokes just do not value housework - or any work that doesn't have a direct wage attached to it. And it's horrible and v. demoralising to feel that your role isn't valued (even more so when, like you, you are doing paid work too).

Dh is just the same in this regard and it drives me mad. He only notices when things don't get done and a while back I actually had to go on strike for a week to illustrate my point. Needless to say, after about five days the house was reduced to a complete shambles (well, more of a shambles than usual ), and at the point when he had run out of clean socks, shirts and pants, he apologised and bought me a huge bunch of lilies. I still had to clear up the week's accumulated crap though and I don't think his attitude has changed fundamentally. Different for me though because I am only doing between 6 and 11 hours of paid work a week atm though so it's only fair I do the lion's share. His attitude to it still irks me though. And it's a very touchy point between us - loaded with simmering resentments - because I basically gave up a fab job for life in London to join him over here where my career options were severely limited/almost obliterated. (Well it didn't start out as a permanent decision but became one ifyswim.) Anyway, excuse selfish digression/rant there - if you are both working full time then it's a totally different kettle of fish.

I think you are already doing exactly the right thing in getting a cleaner and was just about to suggest it when I read your last paragraph. If cleaning/household chores are the bone of contention and significantly impacting on your relationship then surely your dh will understand that it is worth getting someone else in to do it. I hope it both works out for you. It's a really tough one and many, many couples I know are battling with the same issues. (A friend of mine who works school hours from home 5 days a week has to put up with constant complaints from her dh about the house being untidy, because she does 99% of the childcare of their two boys and she refuses to be solely responsible for housework too.) Good luck with it all It's a really tough one - so fee free to rant awayx

Dizzy arf at head teacher in pjs!

Thank you Swan. And v. good going re: your list yesterday.

Gossip hope you were able to gain control of the remote eventually and well done re: your list yesterday too

Take it steady Whoknows!!

Lauren little cleaning set would look great in your new play house [wicked temptress emoticon

Huge waves to Trazzles Feetheart Sowornout Blue Bitchy Justgettingonwithit Carpe Castlelough Ellie Honu Madwoman Shifty and everyone else

I'm being called down to watch the annual arrival by boat of St Nicolas (+ large white horse) at Antwerp docks on the telly. It's a big event over here! (The legend is that he comes on a boat full of oranges from Spain.) Every year, I wince at the sight of his helper (Zwarte Piet) who is a white man blacked up to look like he is of African descent. I find this hideously racist and disturbing (same when St Nicolas and his helper appear at dd's school - as I am sure you can imagine. But had a discussion about this with colleagues yesterday and a certain contingent mooted that I might be the racist one for not falling in with traditional customs here ...??? I dunno. Can't help my visceral reaction of finding it hugely distasteful. And there are two Rwandan dc in dd's class - goodness knows how their parents feel about it.

Had better go ....

Took so long to write that (with various interruptions) it is now afternoon...

x posts

Oh no Bitchy so sorry you are going through such a difficult time. Most be so bloody worrying. Wish there was something practical I could do to help. I hope you can get your ds the support he needs. I'm sure others on here will have good advice to offer. Take care of yourself too x

Gossip sorry you are suffering with an awful cold and if it's any consolation - dd plays that game with dh - I am wicked witch (always) and he is fun Daddy. I think dc have natural instinct to try and divide and rule!!

Forgot to wave to Pushme and PA before! Sorry to everyone else I've forgotten.

Forgot to wave to Engels (does St Nicolas visit down your way too?)

Ta Da:
Shower
breakfast
painkillers and strap knee up
Load of towels through washer
speak to sis on phone
spend too much time on fb

To do
another load of washing
rescue washing from where ever located
put clothes that are clean and folded/ironed away

Ta Da:
Shower
breakfast
painkillers and strap knee up
Load of towels through washer
speak to sis on phone
spend too much time on fb
another load of washing
rescue washing from where ever located
put clothes that are clean and folded/ironed away
fold clothes in the clean but dumped pile
Watch a film
Sort through Ds' school bag
make up swimming kit

To do
More washing
empty out car
deal with ds' kit
find missing screws for my kit

Ooops, sorry for forgetting the links last night.

There are no missions for the weekend anyway, but here are today's and tomorrow's babysteps:

Babystep 17
Babystep 18

BIL is visiting this w/e, which is lovely as he's great with the boys, but adds an extra layer of complication... :)

Bitchy - oh, you poor thing. Yes, I'm afraid DS has expressed that wish as a result of his anxieties. It's a horrifying thing to hear your child say and you have all my sympathy. I suppose the good thing is that your DS has expressed this feeling rather than keeping it to himself. I'll PM you.

Nicknacks - I agree with SC that getting a cleaner will help. My DH was very against the idea, but it's one of the best things we ever did. I don't think your DH is being at all fair, by the way, as he should do his fair share of housework when you are both home, but I do think sometimes this is a battle that needs to be sidestepped rather than won, which a cleaner might achieve.

Having said that, I am still far from having achieved a fair distribution of labour in the Toffee household. Am aiming to start by asking everyone to at least pick up after themselves.

Well, DS2's party was a great success . We decided to book an entertainer this year and she was just brilliant. We were able to sit there with cups of tea and watch as the children had races, played parachute games, etc. It was fantastic and DS2 had a smile on his face throughout the whole thing.

Meanwhile, DS1 suddenly metamorphosed into a normal teenager and went off into town with three friends to try and buy an 18 XBox game from Argos (the staff wouldn't let them buy it ). He is on good form at the moment - a complete contrast with how he was during half term. I will just enjoy it whilst it lasts.

Babysitting for a friend tonight, but first have to sort out all the party stuff. We have boxes and dustbin bags everywhere.

Ta Da:
Shower
breakfast
painkillers and strap knee up
Load of towels through washer
speak to sis on phone
spend too much time on fb
another load of washing
rescue washing from where ever located
put clothes that are clean and folded/ironed away
fold clothes in the clean but dumped pile
Watch a film
Sort through Ds' school bag
make up swimming kit
Another load of washing
empty bins and put in to disinfect
Soak ds' sports bottles in milton
Sort through ds' training stuff
15mins decluttering in my room
Drink coffee
15mins decluttering in lounge
Give plants a hair cut!
Move plants to winter location so safe from frost
More washing
find missing screws for my kit - Disaster! Can't find them :(
Put pictures up on fb that needed to go up

To do
Yet more washing
Get sorted for training later
remove rubbish from ds' room

Thanks Toffee. Appreciated

Bitchy just wanted to jump in there and say, stay calm when ds talks like that. Don't belittle, but just remember for them it is just a phrase, which at this age they don't know the full implications of, including how hurtful it is when adults hear it. My ds2 has said that in a full blown extreme reaction to something he didn't like (either his older brother teasing him, or having telly turned off in the middle of a race) I take it seriously to the extent I understand that for him, these things are extremely upsetting. HOWEVER, I do not take it seriously to the extent that I think he actually means it for more than the time it takes to stop worrying about that particular thing. Sometimes ds has screamed for three hours over Formula 1, saying things like I can't go on, why does everyone hate me/no-one cares about how I feel, I wish I was dead. But it is because he wants to watch Formula 1. 3 hours later he has moved on. We have all been through the mangle but he is cheery
So we try to think a lot about how we can stop him getting into that state in the first place, rather than reacting so much once he is in that state...ifysim...

I agree that it does help that they are allowed to say they are upset, and not to bottle it up.

done
tiring day here.
music school shennagins
then We went to a lunch with an auntie, who is always extremely hospitable, but that took a large chunk out of day
then we went to Breaking Dawn with two of kids, (ds2 went home with dh)
(loved the soundtrack but film was a bit of a turkey, very soppy except for the witty bits of which there were at least a few minutes of

home exhausted, cooked supper
felt extremely badtempered with messy house and children

and 6 adults and 6 children to feed tomorrow for lunch, which is meant to be celebratory visit, so don't know how I going to cobble together that

Toffee so glad that party was relaxing and fun
SC my Dutch friend finds it all a bit near the edge too. But S P was Moorish which presumably fits in with oranges, so I suppose it was a celebration of foreign goodies.
Nicknacks haven't read back far enough, but I thought cleaners were tax-deductible if you work from home? Also all you have to say is that you can't do your job without it. And anyway, does your dh like takeways? A takeaway is the price of a cleaner.

nicknacks just re-read your post and I'm afraid that some men just don't clean. However it might be possible to get him to cook some meals? At the weekend if all else fails? In lieu of other help with hw? Or some fixed jobs, like recycling, or washing up in the eves? Or putting kids to bed in evening?

Bitchy we have a friend whose ds went through a v similar patch at 7/ 8yo. They used a play therapist - it was really beneficial - I think they ended up going privately, but they said it was absolutely worth it.

Have you gone through this with gp/camhs? Not sure if you have tried any anxiety meds? Is it triggered by particular stuff ie definitely school, or seemingly random? You need to refuse to wait any longer if it is def a school based problem - they absolutely need to be discussing this with you without delay.

Urgent gp referral if you haven't got that under your belt already. Is he on the camhs list already? Worth getting them to reassess if he hasn't been for a while?

There are a lot of kids that seem to go through this. Ds1 would say he didn't want to be an adult. He just didn't want to grow up. (And not in a 'oo, I want to play forever' way, in a deadly serious 'I have contemplated what growing up means and have decided it's not for me' sort of way.). It's very scary. He's more accepting of the inevitability these days (almost 11) but I remember long conversations about the cool and fun stuff that was to come, and his steadfast refusal to have any truck with it at all.

Have you looked into juvenile self harming etc? I don't know that much about it, tbh...

Hi all. Internet not coping too well with thread again, so just a quickie.

(((hugs))) to Bitchy and some and too! Nothing to add to the other's wise advise, but just to let you know I have been there with DC, too. It is hard!!

Going to post before I lose this one for the 100th time!! massive flaps to everyone, but especially SC, Toffee, Whoknows, Mad, swan and nicknacks

Hi all, I have read the thread but then I blinked and now it's 3 hours later so apologies for the lack of personals but please accept some .

Bitchy I have no personal experience but have a friend whose son makes similar statements (he's 8 or 9). He also says things like mummy, I could kill you. I would get a knife and stab you right in the chest...

She was ignoring it until recently hoping he would grow out of it but I think now she's gone to her GP and CAMHS. Not sure what's happened since though.

Yesterday I tackled Mt Washmore and now it's all put away. Today my coffee table will get, and stay, clear.

Micro-steps over here.

Waves to everyone.