When do you tell people?

[Butterpie]

So, we're decided on HE, we have told family and close friends, but how do you decide when/if to tell people in general?

EG, today we were playing in front of the house and a neighbour came over for a chat. She asked when DD1 was starting nursery, I just said "oh, she's not doing that, haha" in the hope that the conversation would move on, but she started telling me all the local nurseries that have places, so I said we had decided not to do nursery, then "oh, but you have to send her so she gets into a good school", so I just went for it, big grin "We're going to home educate!"

The lady was very positive actually, curious as to if it is legal, if we need to be qualified, if she needs to do SATs, etc.

I'm not always going to have the time/inclination for a full explanation though, plus I don't want DD1 to cotton on quite yet how unusual "staying with mummy and learning and playing when we want to" really is.

Any tips?

Fantastic that you got a positive response! That must have been great.

In the case of a young child, you could just say that you are delaying your child's school start for a year or two. Most of the worries people have about HE seem to relate to doing it in the long term. I first became interested in home education because I felt my daughter wouldn't enjoy school at four, and a great many people will agree with you there and feel it is no big deal to start school at four or five or six, as children do in most other countries.

If you want to avoid heated debates, it's good to phrase everything positively. Anti-school sentiments can be seen as a criticism of people whose children/grandchildren go to school, of hardworking dedicated teachers, etc. For example, if you say that your child wouldn't get enough attention in a class of 30, you may get an argument, whereas if you say that she'll thrive with individual attention from you, you may get agreement. I know it's just words, but...

If you can meet up with some other local home educators, that would help your daughter (and you!) to feel that it isn't odd for her to be out of nursery or school. The happier you are about what you are doing, and the more you know about home education, the less intimidating it feels to explain your decision to other people.

And interestingly, if you look happy when you mention HE, people tend to respond positively. A local friend of mine said she had a lot of negative reactions from people on the bus, in shops etc. This shocked me, because I rode the same buses and went in the same shops and everyone always seemed interested in HE. We realised that she said "he's home educated" in a don't-even-go-there sort of way, expecting to be met with hostility, whereas I announce that my daughter is home educated in the same tone of voice I'd use to tell people it was her birthday or she'd just learned to ride a bike.

Sara

I think that Saracen has exactly the right approach. I'm sure that a lot of people get hostility because they either are very defensive or very evangelical.
The defensiveness isn't friendly as it seems to say 'mind your own business' and the evangelical makes it seem as though you think it a better choice than other peoples, rather than merely the best choice for you.

I don't see why you need to tell people-it is perfectly normal-just treat it that way.

Definitely the right approach from Saracen - if you make it sound like a positive choice for you, then people will be much more likely to be enthused on your behalf. If you sound defensive, they'll assume there's a reason you're expecting a bad reaction. And if you sound like you are dissing schools, they will feel you are judging them for sending their children to school.

It can be a bit wearing answering the same questions over and over, but you have to remember that most people just don't know anything about HE and so they will ask the same questions, and put them in ways which sound insulting or judgemental because they haven't had to think through how they sound before.

So you'll get "But the schools are good round here" and "Is there something wrong with her then?" and "But that can't be legal" and "But you're not a teacher" and of course the old chestnut "How will she learn to be with other people / cope with life?"

If it's someone you're going to bump into quite often, then I'd put in the effort to have the conversation, even if its a bit repetitive. But when it's a stranger you've bumped into and won't see again, up to you how much time and effort you feel like putting into the explanation - you don't have to give the full story on every parenting decision you make!

ive only been HEing since the start of february but ive only had 1 person with negative comments, everyone else has been intersted how we 'do it'. i find myself rattling off all the books, internet sites etc we use, but i also stress that he does see his friends every day after they have finished school and at weekends i cant move in my house for friends . as he is 13 the biggest question is exams, but as soon as i mention IGCSE and explain a bit about it i tend to loose them and get a lot of head nodding.

I avoid it as much as possible tbh.

If people ask 'when's he starting?' I say 'oh he won't be nursery/school age until xxx.'

What school is he going to? We haven't decided yet. (I can then say I went to xx and DH went to yy as we still live in the area which is diverting.)

If they keep going I'll mutter something about not starting too early, Cambridge Primary Education Report/Sweeden etc.

So, not exactly lying, but def. avoiding the subject as much as possible if I don't want to talk about it. If I do then it's positive but not confrontational, like Saracen/AMIS says.

Of course, you may be pleasantly surprised - my mum's friend yesterday said she thought it was brilliant and wished she'd done it with her kids

Sweden

Hi, I've also had positive responses/ interested responses in all but one case. I feel more confident about telling people now that we're less new to it and I'm so sure it's the right thing for us to do. I tend to only mention it when people ask - it used to be "you must start school soon" to ds, and he or I just said "not yet" but now he is 6 some people actually guess he is HE which suggests it really is being seen as more "normal". My bank manager was really interested! I find that answering the questions is all that is needed, people are genuinely curious, but if I'm not in the mood for a big discussion I just answer the first question and then change the subject by asking about their children/job/whatever!

I think that you have to be secure in your decision. I sent my DCs to a primary school that some people wouldn't touch with a barge pole, but I had been to see it and I knew that it was an excellent school. No one ever questioned my choice because I was happy and positive. I didn't announce it-I only told people if they asked. I don't see any need to announce anything of that nature, e.g. I only tell people which university DS is at if it comes up in conversation or they ask.

I can understand people getting fed up with the same questions but they are worth answering. I make decisions on HEers on here from their attitude. Some I would happily send my DC to for the day, but others I wouldn't want to send them for half an hour! They are just so antagonistic and defensive-it is draining.

In the case of Butterpie I would just tell people if it comes up in normal conversation. I remember another thread where some people gave you a bit of a hard time just because you were making a huge thing of doing with your DCs what any good parent is quietly doing anyway. (sorry if it sounds a bit mean but at the age of your DCs people are often not thinking of education yet-if you have got people worried about the 'right' nursery for the 'right'school for eventually the 'right' university then you must be is a 'competitive mummy' area and I wouldn't worry about their opinion anyway!)

I tell people when asked. It's usually obvious if I don't have the time to go into lengthy explanations.

I've also, in 7 years of planning and then doing HE, never had a negative comment

But I've also never had a negative comment for bfing in public, despite doing it for 7 years (different babies).

I do think that I have a breezy, positive attitude and people just don't dare think to be negative about my bizarre (to them) parenting choices.

So I'd say if it comes up in conversation, then say they're going to be home educated, and don't bother if it doesn't.

When I have been out with my HEed nephews and the subject comes up (which is very rare)they just say 'I don't go to school, I am educated at home'. The only response I have heard is 'Oh'. I don't bother to elaborate, the subject just changes and we move on.

I think that they might get a different response if they brought it up or I felt the need to make a comment.

(I have also breastfed everywhere with 3 DCs and never had a negative comment)

I'm sure that if you don't invite comment, are secure in what you are doing and don't push it in people's faces or feel that you are a pioneer you can just quietly get on with it.

If you feel the need to 'announce' things then it asks for a response-which has only about a 50-50 chance (or maybe less)of the response you want. You are actively asking for a response.

This week is a bad week for me to answer this question ! I must live in nosey town as the world and his wife has an opinion on what we are doing and most of them are negative.

I don't ever tell people we HE but it seems everyone knows and passes comment on it. A few are positive (mostly "older" people) but the vast majority are just downright rude to the point where this week my son has said he won't go to the bank any more because "they gang up on him" I will have to have words with them I think.

Even yesterday, we were at a theme park, miles from home and I saw a Mum from ds1's old school and I had to turn and walk away so she didn't see us as I know through friends what she has been saying about us and I couldn't be bothered to explain it all to her. The thing is, she was there with her kids (bunking off) and yet I would never dream of saying to her "Ooh, what about their education and exams" like everyone says to me all the bloody time !

I know some people are genuinely interested but this week, the negativity, closed mindedness and blatant rudeness from some people has really got me down.

Rant over (ish)

Onajourney, that's sad that you've had a bad day, and that people are negative towards you and your DS.
It's really difficult when you are up against people who think that your business is their business.
But keep your chin up. At the end of the day you know you have made the right decision for your DS and that you are both happy with it.
I also find that older people give us a positive attitude and grandson chats to them about what he's doing and they are always genuinely interested.
From personal experience, you do get weeks sometimes when you feel a bit deflated and annoyed with people.
We also get the 'what about exams?' I have to bite my tongue and not retort with 'Well, how many GCSEs/Alevels have you got?
When I close my door at the end of the day and grandson is in bed asleep, there are only one or two occasions when I have felt down - not because I can't do it, but, like you say, people are just so bloody nosy and annoying.
Fine, if others don't have the experiences some of us have, but that shouldn't negate the feelings of those of us who do.
Everything in the garden isn't always rosy, and we as parents know that.

piscesmoon, I am defensive when someone approaches me, who doesn't know me, and thinks it's OK to ask me questions regarding my grandson's education.
I would not dream of stopping someone in the street and asking them why they send their children to school.
I respect the decisions others make and I expect others to reciprocate that respect.
'Some you would send your DC to happily for the day and some you wouldn't want to send them for half an hour- they're so defensive etc.'
Well, frankly, you are not a home educator, so what gives you the right to air your views about others here - you don't know people here personally. I live on a council estate and grandson and I are up against it most days. We run the gauntlet of personal abuse and I have even been assaulted by a parent when I didn't respond to her jibes about myself and grandson.
I am secure in my choice for my grandson's education, and I'll thank you to remember that life isn't so breezy as you would like us all to think it is.
And, frankly if your children are as arrogant as you, I wouldn't want them for five minutes, never mind half an hour!

Thank you Marjoriew, most weeks it rolls over me and I ignore people, but this week has really been one of those weeks!

Here are some comments...

Why don't you cut his hair? (ds2)
Oooh, here come the hippies.
Why did you have another baby-what a big age gap.
Why do you use those silly cloth nappies, he must stink!
My God, he will break his legs in that car seat, why didn't you buy a proper one (it is rear facing)
What do you mean he can't have diet coke in his sippy cup?
You have ruined his formal education.
Does he have special needs then?
I thought they liked school?
What a shame you never had a girl (whilst looking at ds3 like he is a bag of rubbish)
He will never get to Uni now.
Why did you take him out of that school, wasn't it good enough for you? (v.sarcastic)

The list goes on !

These are real comments from friends, family and neighbours/acquaintances in just one week
as you can see, they are not all to do with HE but honestly, why do people think it is ok to be telling other people how to live their lives and commenting/judging all the time?

If I haven't got something nice to say, I don't say it !

Well, I've had

You must be getting on a bit [I'm 62, had grandson since he was two, he's now 11] 'Why would you want him under your feet all day?

I've even had, 'What will happen to his education if anything happens to you?

I did get it from family initially, but I told them 'I don't tell you how to bring up your children, so don't teach me to suck eggs.
It's fine now in the family. Youngest son is a computer programmer and he helps grandson with computer stuff.
Middle son is in the Army and he is teaching him map reading.
Oldest daughter is a great cook and she has him round to bake/cook.
etc.
You'll look back on this time and think better of it. Easy to say now, I know, but I'm sure you're doing a great job and your DS will thank you for it.

Thanks Marjoriew

'Well, frankly, you are not a home educator, so what gives you the right to air your views about others here - you don't know people here personally. '

Sooner or later someone gets down to this!! It doesn't happen on any other threads. It is a public discussion site, absolutely anyone has the right to comment-they don't even have to be a mum to register.
My opinion is just as good as anyone elses and it helps greatly ,IMO, to have an alternative view and question things otherwise it all becomes self congratulatory 'aren't we wonderful,' and no one is perfect.
I comment because I find the subject interesting. I comment on other education boards and no one ever says 'your DC doesn't go to a private school/grammar school what gives you the right to air your views about others?! It is a free country-I have as much right to air my views as anyone else.

I had you down as a HEer who was doing well with a grandson who had had a poor start in life Marjoriew, before your outburst-perhaps I just caught you on a bad day. Or perhaps I am not supposed to form opinions on anyone?

Every single HEed DC that I have come across, in RL or TV has been lovely. I think this is because they don't have an axe to grind, they don't slag schools and they are not defensive. They merely enjoy HE and think it is best for them-superb ambassadors and then their parent appears and very often they are aggressive or defensive and expect not to get the same back.

I commented because Butterpie asked a question. She gets a good response on here, but she has had a poor one when she has not posted similar on HE. I thought my advice was useful because she is dealing with people who are not HEers in RL. A sure way to get a negative response is to 'announce' it-especially when her DCs are some way off school age.

Sorry-I meant she has posted similar type things but not on HE.

I admit I've been trying to ignore the more outrageous things piscesmoon has been saying on this thread, in the interests of not starting a fight, but I'm going to pop my head over the parapet and say I agree with Marjoriew.

"I make decisions on HEers on here from their attitude. Some I would happily send my DC to for the day, but others I wouldn't want to send them for half an hour! They are just so antagonistic and defensive-it is draining."

"I had you down as a HEer who was doing well with a grandson who had had a poor start in life Marjoriew, before your outburst-perhaps I just caught you on a bad day. Or perhaps I am not supposed to form opinions on anyone?"

That you don't HE doesn't bother me. That your attitude is judgemental, condescending, 'it's ok as long as I approve of you', does grate a little.

Unfortunately, as you have just demonstrated, we get judged on here just as much as in RL, assessed by people with absolutely no knowledge of us and no business in our affairs.

It's a good training ground really, in learning how to deal with people who can fuck right off wittingly or no, make your life that little bit less pleasant. I would normally recommend holding one's tongue- can't follow my own advice today though.

I find it weird to be able to say (truthfully) there are certain schools that my DCs would go to 'over my dead body' and no one bats an eye. I suggest that some HEers are excellent but some aren't and I am arrogant! My DCs must be arrogant-my DCs couldn't casre less how or where anyone is educated and wouldn't ask.

If you are having hassle over your choices it makes sense for a person who doesn't HE their opinion-unless you want to just have a good old moan about how dreadful people are and don't want advice. A non HEer is the best person to ask in this instance.

HEing is done by a very small minority and so you are bound to get interest, or people who don't understand or don't want to understand or are downright anti.

The people who turn me right off are the aggressive and defensive. You can make judgements-it is human nature to do so. I don't agree with many of julienoshoes posts, but I have no doubt at all that she is an excellent HEer, giving her DCs an superb way of life and an inspiration to all(even me!)I dare say she gets very irritated with me but she has always been polite and patient. MrsWobble, Saracen and a MuminScotland always seem positive and cheery-the sort of people that you would assume were doing a good job and I don't think that people would question them much.

I think that Marjoriew's grandson is better served by being HEed, some DCs are, and yet I am 'condescending' to say so. Of course she doesn't need my approval!! However people make judgements -everyone does-it is automatic -within seconds of meeting someone you take things in and make a judgement (you may revise)and it is the same on here.

By attacking me for 'making judgements' you are missing my very point. People will make judgements when they meet you and you will either change them around or confirm them.

You will get the negative so you need a way to deal with it. I wouldn't get drawn in, I would just smile and say 'it suits us at the moment..... are you going anywhere nice on holiday?or similar. There is no need to be rude and there is no need to answer questions.

OP asked how she should announce it-I think that my answer was useful. Don't announce it.

Some of you are your own worse enemies-a sense of humour, a smile and the positive side does wonders.

Sorry-I should proof read-hope you can sort the missing words, punctuation and extra letters-I think quicker than I type.

@piscesmoon: I'd like to opt out of your Naughty and Nice lists please. I don't mind you saying that you agree or disagree with other people, but I don't feel a particular need to know which people you approve of and which you don't. It's a bit insulting, whichever list you put me on.

You're right, people do make judgements about everyone all the time, but it isn't polite to go around announcing them publicly with lists of who's OK and who isn't.

Several times you've made a point of explaining that the way people express themselves has a strong bearing on what reaction they get from others. Perhaps it is not a coincidence that a number of people seem annoyed with you. It might have something to do with the way you put things?

I think that I will leave you to it.
I deliberately didn't name anyone that I thought over defensive and aggressive.
I think that people are annoyed with me because I respond in kind-this is what you will find in RL. If someone is cheerful, pleasant and positive they will get the same back, if they are negative and defensive they will get the same back.
People who find me arrogant, condescending etc will respond in kind. It all goes to prove my point-and something to bear in mind when strangers/acquaintances ask you questions. The way that you put things in the first place and the way you respond will dictate the way the conversation goes.