The Socialisation Issue

[Marjoriew]

I always know when anyone is asking me about HE, that they are going to bring up the socialisation issue.
I realise it's an important issue, but it seems to me that it's the first thing people bring up when they are asking about HE.
It's like implying that if they aren't in school, they're not getting to mix enough with other children.
Why does socialisation have to take place within a child's peer group?
When asked, it feels as though the priority of others is that it doesn't matter a jot whether a child is happy being educated out of school or not to a better standard than in school - that it's so much more important that they are socialised.

I didn't read it that way, Seeker, but I can kind of see how it could be read like that.

I think I think that the most important part of school is the socialisation... probably why HE is so alien to me!

I'm interested in why you think that, Bonsoir. IME, not much socialisation goes on at school. Also not much socialising, which is what I think we're really meaning.

Much of the time is spent with a teacher preventing socialising (there are usually rules about not talking and not using phones, etc.). There are a couple of short breaks (sometimes only a break in the morning) plus lunchtime for socialising (plus eating, going to the loo, etc.).

When EHE kids get together for a social gathering, it tends to be for uninterrupted hours at a time. In fact, our robotics club is mostly serving a social purpose at the moment and the kids (up to 7 males aged 12-16yrs) tend to be playing together for an hour before lunch and then 2-3 hours after lunch. What brings them in for lunch is their hunger. The adults are available (if needed) but are downing large quantities of tea and chat providing mutual support.

I agree with SDeuchars but I do think it probably depends on the family! My children do so much socialising I feel like we're never at home some weeks! Way, way more time spent playing with friends than they'd get if they were in school. And our local groups meet purely for big group socialising for about 3 hours once a week in the afternoon.

I said they may miss out, purely based on my experience of meeting and working with HE children, including one who had a lot of Pokemon cards but noone to play them with him! At local schools they were all the rage so his parents had to actively try to find a way for him to do play with other children who were interested when his other friends weren't. I'm sure they knew Pokemon existed but they didn't want to play something which was/is a very big cultural trend which meant at least 1 HE child was missing out on something that would have been readily available at school until his parents dealt with the issue. A group of 7 is very different to a group of 30 when it comes to diverse interests and finding people to play with you.

I think it's something people genuinely want to know how will be managed because socialisation at school, which covers learning how to be in a group/manage peer relationships/share adult attention/learn at another person's pace - all important life skills - aren't necessarily a part of HE. I know they can be met by groups and very successfully but a lot of people don't, and it does take proactive parents to ensure that happens.

It can sometimes be a problem-people come on here and are having real difficulty finding other HEers. Some areas are clearly much more social than others and unless you live in a town a car is a necessity.
I think that the main disadvantage is that you don't see the same friends every day and if your parents don't happen to like your choice they are not going to make it easy. My best friend at school is my best friend today, but my mother certainly wasn't keen in having her in our house-short doses was enough for her! Luckily it wasn't dependent on my mother and we had the daily contact to maintain a friendship which is very important to us. I can remember my mother being very keen to foster friendships with children that she liked and they were not necessarily the ones that I liked. It is something to be aware of.

I agree, pisces, in that it depends on the parents. I make sure my DD2 sees her closest friend very often, even though I find it quite stressful being with her family, and it can be quite complicated as her friend is obsessed with DD1 if she's around, which upsets DD2 and annoys DD1! So I have to find some way of getting them together without DD1 around. But I do it as she's the person DD2 enjoys spending lots of time with!

HE kids don't just have to be friends with Other HE kids though. It's daunting when you first start, which is why many people struggle, they concentrate on just meeting other HE families. Most of ds friends go to school. He has met them at after school activities and fostered the friendships from there.

When you join regular HE groups/classes you do end up seeing the same kids, in the same setting weekly or more, many in the same area do all sorts of different classes together. Ds has an HE peer group, albeit of a slightly bigger age range than would be in a class at school, but I sometimes do see them like a 'class' of children as they all join in with most of the HE classes.

I think that it depends very much on where you live. My nephews are HEed and they have always had friends who go to school, in fact the family that they socialise most with all go to school, and some of the HE group have given SIL a hard time over that!
I think that if you are a sensible parent and put yourself out to accommodate DCs that you don't necessarily choose, like MrsWobble, then it isn't a problem. I guess that you just have to make more effort-with school you can be lazy and opt out of doing anything yourself (if you don't want to).

Ah, I don't think socialisation and socialising are the same thing. Plenty of both goes on at DD's school, fortunately.

socialisation did worry us, but I do believe if you go about it proactively there's no reason why HEd kids should miss out. they could easily make a wider circle of friends than they would at school where they're often stuck with those in a 1-year range.

DD (2.11) starts nursery (twice a week) tomorrow as she's been desperate to go for a while. it'll be interesting to see how she gets on as she's only been to small playgroups before.

one thing I'd like to pick your brains about - I do think it's important for HE kids to mix with schooled children, as you can't protect them from the knowledge that not everyone is HE. if we HE we'll be finding sports clubs etc. but does that normally work out ok? WWYD if schoolkids thought your DCs were 'weird' because of HE? or do children not notice the difference (maybe it's parents who notice and point it out?

Grandson started at kickboxing a few weeks ago.
Some of the boys his age asked him where he went to school. He told them he was home educated. Their response was 'Cool, man!'

MMM - like I have said in previous posts, ds lots of friends who do go to school who he has met in various clubs. IME, it's the parents who tend to have the problem, not the children, the children couldn't care less, but the parents are like dogs with bones over it, they just cannot let go.

He is only seven, but kids are friends with other children who go to all different schools. Ds being HE'd is no different to them to if he just went to a different primary school.

I think the perception of the 'strange homeschooled kid' comes from the hippy stereotype. We always get told we look 'normal'. I have met HE families who do fit that sterotype myself though, so they do exist.

IME, it is not an issue for children, certainly not at primary and early secondary ages. You get a few who want to "test" the EHE kids, to try to prove that they can't have learned anything because they are not in school. Once a child is used to EHEing, they tend to be confident (or uncaring about) dealing with that sort of stuff. Most children think it is great not to have to school.

I think that the adults are afraid that their children will also want to be EHE, LOL. Also, some take it as a reflection on their choices (especially if their DC are not happy or not doing well at school).

I do think it's important for HE kids to mix with schooled children,
as you can't protect them from the knowledge that not everyone is HE.

Sorry, MMM, but ROFLMAO - school is such a huge part of our culture that it would be impossible to "protect" them (unless you locked them in the cupboard under the stairs)!

Unless you do not use any community clubs or activities, they will meet schooled children. It really does not have to be a priority. It might not happen until they are 8+ but I can't see why that would be a problem. By analogy, an immigrant family might want their children to mix with indigenous British children but they would not have to go out of their way to ensure it.

lol SD, but that's sort of what I mean, I know a few HE families who go out of their way to keep their kids away from schooled kids. only doing HE groups etc. can't last forever!

MMM, oh yes, I know few HE families like that as well who will only do HE groups and not let their kids do any after school type activities.

MMM - I guess you need to be a bit lucky wrt to the leaders of some groups, but other than that, it doesn't even come up! My oldest two do badgers and we had to say they were HEd when we were filling in the forms with her as it asked their school. She just said, very sensibly, 'do we need to tell you anything wrt to what we're doing as it relates to the NC?' and I said 'no'. And that was it!

Their dance lessons it hasn't come up except when I was trying to work out what year DD1 was in.

that's good to know. TBH I'm more worried about what DH's older kids will think - their mum is likely to criticise anything different from the norm

just out of interest how does Badgers relate to the NC? (I'm hoping to find a local Badgers, my best friend works for St J and used to run her local group, sounds great!)

no idea! I don't know anything about the NC!

I don't see why socialisation has to have anything to do with where DCs are educated. My SIL has some very odd people in her group who want to keep their DCs segregated from schooled DCs!
My nephews follow their own interests and so of course they come into contact with DCs who go to school. e.g. they belong to a tennis club, go to Scouts, act in theatre groups etc. It has never been a problem.

I am thinking of HE my DD from September (Year 7) onwards and the first question my DH asked was about her having friends! She is in guides and dances twice a week, apart from all the time she spends at the park with children she doesn't currently go to school with. I can't see it being a problem here.

I would have thought socialisation in HE depends on where you are, whether you drive and how easy it is for your child to travel. I did think about it vaguely at one stage, but realised that there are no HE groups nearby, I don't drive and public transport wouldn't really be enough for us. No doubt there are lovely HE groups, but we couldn't get there.

There are other activity groups around but tbh dd has never made friends there the way they have at school.

Am sure it would be different if things were different, but as it is dd is adamant she wants to go to school even though it is quite difficult for her (health reasons). Just circumstances.

I remember going to my local HE group with grandson and someone passed a remark 'I don't see how anyone can HE without a car'.
I don't drive, but we live 5 minutes from the bus station, so can usually get around quite easily.
I have my bus pass so only have to pay for grandson. We go all over the place on the bus. It's time consuming going by bus but we enjoy it.

It's been hard to find other people who HE around here, apart from one family who aren't doing groups yet.

We don't have a car but we're very used to public transport... here's hoping, if we do HE, it'll be ok. Would love a car but if we stuck on one income I doubt we could afford one