HE in Germany

[Thediaryofanobody]

I know HE is outright illegal in Germany but I was wondering what age school is compulsory?
I'm guessing 6 years for beginning of Kindergarden but is pre K compulsory too?

Any loop holes regarding non german families?

DH and I would really love to live in Germany for awhile (we can be rather nomadic) and know it fairly well being that we have both lived there previously. But not if we can HE. DD is 4 years so not sure if it would be worth the up root.

This site would suggest that it is compulsory after kindergarten, at age 6, in which case you'd be OK.

Thanks for that. Just need to decide if it's worth it for only 2 years.

The age at which your child becomes liable for school depends where you live, as education differs from state to state. Here in Berlin many children start school at 5, because you start in August/September if you turn 6 during that calendar year. In other states the deadline is six months after that. What also differs is that in some states it is possible to get a year's extension by pleading that your child is 'not ready' to go to school (nicht schulfähig), either psychologically or physically. This needs to be confirmed by a paediatrician. Again, in Berlin for instance, these exemptions are no longer given - the emphasis is on getting children in the school system as early as possible (for very good reasons, by the way).

So what do Germans do who would otherwise HE? There were those fundamentalists recently who applied for political asylum in Texas, but most people who want to avoid mainstream schooling choose slightly 'alternative' schools like Waldorf, which don't have the same slightly cult-like reputation as in the UK.

where in GErmany would you want to live (if you know already)? Each state has their own laws regarding education.

In Berlin my dd had to start school aged 5 because she would have turned 6 by the end of the calender year although she was not yet 6 when school started in September. There was 1 older boy in the class whose dp had applied for his entry to be deferred by a year, he was 7 and by far the oldest in the class. Other states you start later. Any kind of compulsory education before then does not exist to my knowledge.

Kindergarten is not part of school like reception in the UK. Kindergartens are seperate institutions and generally from ages 3-6, sometimes they take younger dc. No child has to attend kindergarten unless the law changed recently. They like to see it with non-German dc because they learn the language there, thus better equipping them for school.

Are you very keen on HE or would you accept some type of school - Montessori for instance? If you never register your dc as living in Germany, I suppose they might never find out. Tricky business though. Why not go before your kids reach school age?

If you can read German, here is a recent newspaper article. There is some organisation I forget the name though if you google heimunterricht or hausunterricht it might come up.

[http://www.tagesspiegel.de/wissen/heimunterricht-muss-erlaubt-sein/1520628.html Tagespiegel]]

Austria permits HE. Have you thought about living there? A local school does monitor what you do but I have no idea how rigorous they would be with English speakers who are only living there temporarily. Another place you could base yourself and yet easily travel around and see Germany is Denmark where HE is also allowed.

Ooh, ZZZenAgain has just reminded me, saying that there's no compulsory education before school age. Berlin again has an exception here (maybe after you left, ZZZen), because they've introduced a language test for 4-year-olds called the Deutsch Plus, and any child who doesn't do well enough at it has to go to German lessons for a year prior to compulsory schooling. I think the classes are held either at the local school or a kindergarten, and they might even be 1-to-1. The aim is to make sure that all children can speak adequate German before starting school (which is fair enough). I don't know if any other federal states have introduced a similar language test, but you really need to check before moving somewhere.

Interesting article, ZZZenAgain. Might have know it hall had something to do with the Nazis, it usually does.

maybe I'm psychic then Engel! I always wanted to be... I had a gut feeling they would be making changes at kiga level.

If they are testing 4 year olds for GErman you are in the soup OP. Might work if you try and fob them off along the lines you plan to send your dc to international school where English is entirely in German or something and you are only living there temporarily, therefore it makes no sense for your family (sadly etc...). I don't know though. German state has the reputation of not mucking about. They call it "hart durchgreifen". Wouldn't frankly want to clash swords openly myself

"English is entirely in German"

translates as "instruction is entirely in ENglish"

whereabouts in Berlin are you Engel?

BlauerEngel Thanks for the tip off on Berlin. I would certainly use the opportunity to teach DD (and 1 year old DS) German and relearn myself. DH lived there for many years as an army brat and shamefully never learnt.

ZZZenAgain Ideally Munich but open to suggestion.

I was wondering if I could swallow putting her in a Montessori school for a few hours each day.

I did wonder if I could spend time split between UK or Germany but I sure the Germans will have some sort of rules about this too, Officials can be very difficult IME if they feel challenged in anyway and can't be bothered to fight when it's not necessary to live there.
Maybe we should consider long extended breaks of 3 months over the summer instead.

Thanks for the info in Austria may look into that instead, we could pop back and fourth to Munich. I have vague memories of camping in Austria in the summer months and it being a fairly shortish drive of 2 hours.
Mind you the roads up the Alps Not sure if I could do that too often.

IME German schools, school boards are not really open to flexible arrangements such as you envisage. They have Schulpflicht which means your dc must be at school whenever it is not a school holiday so I don't know how you could come and go very easily.

You'd have to check out the Montessori schools in Munich to see what length their school day is. Traditionally Germany had half-day schools (morning only starting at 8am), now the govt is trying to encourage Ganztagsschulen by giving these schools extra funding (that's 8am-4pm compulsory) What you would need is a Montessori Schule which is halbtags so you can pick them up at lunchtime.

On the whole Bavaria has the reputation of being especially strict about all things related to education

i'm in bayern and seems life is not so strict here!!

ds is 6 in october and isnt going to school in september - the cut off date is the end of august and even if their birthday is just before that date you can ask for them to wait another year. and no german tests here! just an assessment with no drama if they dont seem ready for school!

hope that helps

I have a friend whose dc attend an international school and she somehow circumnavigates this and travels abroad frequiently with her dc. At a regular German school I don't see this happening frankly.

lol canella me saying Bavaria is particularly strict and you saying Bavaria is not at all strict about it!

You should know I suppose.

canella will look at Bayern age wise that might work out better.

ZZZen I remember how strict Bavaria is in general with the ridiculously short school days but hours and hours of homework.
Will certainly look into Montessori.

Is there anywhere I could look to find out how long you need to have been in Germany before they enforce school onto you?
When are the school Summer Holidays and how long?

if your dc are school age and registered (as you are obliged to be registered), they will not have any leeway for foreigners, your dc would be obliged to start school straight away. I doubt you'd be left in peace for half a year or so. You could call the Schulamt and make a general enquiry about how much time you would have to organise a school and how you go about it. How it works is based on your address registration, you will be allocated a local school. If you want to send your dc to a Montessori school or other, you need to go into that local school, fill out a form with the name of the school you are sending them too and this gets sent to the Schulamt so they know what is what.

school holidays vary from state to state. Will have a look.

i find it strict as in getting the kids to do the work once they are at school and the stupid number of tests they get but dont feel dd has loads of homework! but find them quite relaxed about kids starting school later - only 2 kids out of a possible 9 in the village are going this year - the rest are waiting till their kids are nearly 7!!!

no idea how long you have to be here before school is forced on you - we wanted dd to get right into school since we plan to live here forever so she started the next week.

school summer hols in bayern start beginning of august for 6 weeks.

here

You're right ZZZen, I think international schools have to be more relaxed than regular German schools, because there's always going to be more coming and going due to parents' work commitments. A friend of DD1 has just had a few months in the UK at school there (but she could have just as easily been homeschooled) and came back into her old school class in Berlin, all with the school's knowledge and permission.

Mmm, Montessori is another good non-state option. They're quite relaxed and into individual learning.

ZZZen, we're in Zehlendorf, but not the really posh bit.

was that one of the Europa schools Engel?

Hah! Zehlendorf. Seem to have spent half my life in Zehlendorf.

mind you Zehlendorf is nice

Yup, the QB. Where in Zehlendorf were you? (sorry about hijack)

near O-H-H

I'm just loving the cryptic-ness

sorry diary

I just googled MOntessori schule Munchen and a whole bunch came up including an International MOntessori with Kinderkrippe (i.e Kiga).

So why is it you want to live in Germany, just the fancy took you or is it about the dc learning German?(Because they would learn it fast at kiga/school)

Ah, I spend a large amount of my time lurking around there, picking up kids etc. What a great place Marschallstrassse is...
Gotta go and throw them in bed now.