Will he be missing out on playing with other children?

[bubbleymummy]

Ds1(4) is due to start school in sept. We've been looking at a few different ones and there is a little country one quite near to us that we are considering BUT I just don't feel 100% about it. I would like to home educate- even just try it for a few years while he's young but I keep getting the same 'socialisation' argument from dh and my mum. I have read a lot and have explained that ds can socialise with other home ed children or in after school groups but they both think he would be missing out by not being in school with other children. How do I get past this? Or should I (as dh suggests) try him in school and then take him out if it's not working. I think this may be more disruptive for him. Any advice/experiences appreciated. Tia

My ds is 7, and he sees kids every day. He does home ed activities (either HE groups or classes like football) three days a week, and after school activites like drama and dancing five afternoons a week. A couple of days a week we will meet up with other home ed friends. In the holidays we are jam packed seeing his friends from after school clubs who are in school during the day.

If you make an effort to take him to home ed activities inyour area and to after school activites, he will have no shortage of freinds and opportunities to have fun and form friendships with other children. If I find my ds the activities, he has no trouble gettng in there and making friends. I was sure not to just do HE stuff thouh, as I wanted him to make friends with kids who went to school as well.

Not that it will make any difference to the amount of people who will ask you "but how does he socialise?"

he went to school for reception year and was miserable, had no friends despite being surrounded by 25 other kids all day and was always left out of party invites. He is so happy now, has some lovely little friends and has been to six birthday parties since Christmas!

Also, I never wanted ds to go to school (or pre school, which he did a term of before reception). It felt so wrong, and I knew it would be wrong for him, I was worrying about it from when he was two! I should have gone with my gut instincts and it was a complete and utter disaster. If you are not 100% on school, really look at your reasons why. My ds had such a horrendous experience of school and it has clouded his thoughts about it. Maybe if I had gone with my gut and not sent him, he would not have formed such negative opinions of it.

Here are some suggestions of angles which might help to persuade your dh and mum....

Have you investigated / got involved with local home ed activities yet? I was just thinking that maybe if your dh and mum knew what sort of activities were available to your ds they might feel more reassured.
I know my Dad felt a lot better when he realised we would have activities with other families to go to, I think he was worried we would be isolated.
Lots of people join in our local events while their children are pre-school age. We started going to HE things when ds1 was nearly 4, and ds2 who is nearly 3 comes along and joins in everything that ds1 (now 6) does - there are lots of other little ones there too.
Also, you could join a local after school group or meet up regularly with other children you know, so they see that your ds is meeting other children in that way too.

Although in school your ds would probably spend more hours in the company of other children, and come into contact with a greater number in one place, the actual social experience is not necessarily better. In fact the number of different types of social experience / different types of people met may be less.

Or, depending on your ds' personality, it may that the kind of social experiences he can have through home ed would benefit him more - certainly with my ds1 he is much more confident in smaller groups where he can gradually get involved. In the long run I think those sort of experiences are making him far more socially confident and able to be himself - he is only shy and anxious in big, busy, noisy groups which is of course what he would face daily at school.

I'm sure that in time your dh and mum would see that your ds is doing fine socially, but it is hard facing those doubts and staying confident in your decision! Maybe you could suggest to dh that you try HE and then review if he doesn't feel that your ds' social needs are being met - rather than the other way round. We started HE as a "for now" thing but have never looked back.

Good luck with the decision. And if it is any reassurance - the first 2 days of our HE week have been:
Monday - gym lesson with about 15 HE children, followed by park with 3 others from gym class, followed by playing with neighbours children all evening.
Tuesday - swimming lesson with 8 HE children, play in pool after, then playing all afternoon with cousins.
No social interaction there then!

Thank you so much for your replies. The next big home ed group meet is in 3 weeks so we'll aim to get to that. I may try to contact some others on the forum to see if there are any smaller local meets planned. Even just a trip to the park or something! I really don't seem to be getting anywhere with dh. As far as he is concerned ds is going to school and that's that I'm trying to convince him to let me try HE for a year because if it's not working he won't have missed out on much anyway! I'm also looking into after school groups etc so hopefully we'll find a few things that will give him the chance to make friends. Thanks again and if anyone else has any ideas/ experiences please keep them coming

My son is 4 too, and has never been to nursery or school. A couple of times a week I invite his friends (made through Church) who go to nursery over for lunch, although this will prob have to change to tea/weekends once they're in school, and he goes over to their houses too. We have two boys living next door who are 5 and 6 so they talk over the fence/play in the garden a lot. I don't go to any HE groups at the moment as I have a 2yo and 6mo as well, but we will do this later when I feel able to cope! Plus he will go to stuff like Cubs/Scouts etc.

TBH I think that the importance of hours of socialisation with peers is overstated. We see loads of grandparents, uncles and aunts and our adult friends as well. And I find that more and more frequently DS and DD are playing together really nicely, so I like to think that it's forcing them to be playmates helping their relationship to develop too.

Once you start to make contacts, you'll be able to arrange your own outings & group trips etc.
We alone for a little while & now I am always arranging trips for our group, they meet up weekly for different sports. They have penpals around the country.
If that's the only thing taht's holding you back then don't let it! It won't be a problem for long.

What are your reasons for not wanting him to go to school!

It's mainly to do with education seeker. He has been interested in letters and numbers etc from a v early age so he's already able to read and write at a higher level for his age and he's starting to do math etc. We haven't pushed him at all btw this just happpens to be what he's interested in- like some children are interested in trains or swimming or whatever! The problem that the schools don't really cater for children who are ahead so he'd have to sit and learn the alphabet and numbers up to 10 again and we're worried about him being bored/disruptive. I like the idea of him being able to continue learning at his own pace and be able to decide for himself what he's interested in. I do want to make sure that he gets a chance to play and interact with other children although I do find that he prefers older children to ones the same age which is another reason against school! I haven't completely ruled it out but I haven't found enough to reassure me yet.

Thank you for all your replies ladies. The discussions are still ongoing and I've been to see another school. Keep your advice/experiences coming and I'll keep you posted!

Sorry about my exclamation mark in my last post by he way- it was meant to be a question mark! I honestly think you should look further into what your local schools do for children who can already do school stuff when they arrive- there are lots that can and although some schools don't handle it well, most do, and wouldn't make him do work he's already done. And, as an experienced parent, an ex home educated person and the aunt of home educAted children, the fact that he likes being with older children would incline me to think that maybe the right school would be the right place for him. I am hugely presumptious saying this, I know, so tell me to butt out if you wish.

Not at all seeker. The whole idea is to get different opinions! I just thought he would enjoy having the opportunity to mix with children of different ages such as those in he groups rather than being in a class with 20 children of his age. Only one of the schools that we looked at didn't seem interested in providing anything extra for him. They just said that they'd let him work away and the others would catch up soon enough. The other two schools seem a bit more open to giving him something else to do while the other children are learning the alphabet etc but it just all seems a big vague and it just still seems a bit too structured. Sigh... I wish I could see into the future!

'The problem that the schools don't really cater for children who are ahead so he'd have to sit and learn the alphabet and numbers up to 10 again and we're worried about him being bored/disruptive

There are lots of clever children in schools! Even if they start at the same place on day one-they will all be in different places by half term. I can't see why any teacher would teach the alphabet and numbers to 10 to a child who knows them-I certainly wouldn't-I would heave a sigh of relief and move on to other things-with the other children who were at the same level. Even if he was the only one, which I doubt,I would take him at the level he is at. If they are really far advanced I would expect them to go up to an older age group for certain lessons. If you have a school who are going to try and keep them together then you have the wrong school!

Agree with pisces and seeker...

fwiw I took two of my dcs out of school because I thought they were being shoved too hard down the academic route too early and I could only see the situation getting worse. I think if teachers see a grain of talent or ability in your ds they'd be much more inclined to 'nurture' it than leave him be!

Of course they would nurture it-why on earth would any teacher teach the alphabet to a child who already knows it? I can't see any reason why they would.

Sorry for only getting back now!

Well they obviously won't be 'teaching' him it as such because he already knows it although one school did say that they preferred all the children to learn it the phonetic way so that they can sound out the words when they are learning to read. When I explained that ds can already read very well and knows how to sound out difficult words but that he has learned the letters independently from the sounds that they make ie not as the letter 'buh, duh, luh etc' she was quite dismissive and just said 'well that's the way he'll be learning it in class'. To be fair, it was the headmistress not the p1 teacher who said that - although she does teach a class further up the school. I think she pretty much put me off though (for other reasons as well! )

the two schools we have narrowed it down to seem much more accomodating and have invited us to attend their introduction days in June without having to put our names down so we will have a chance to meet the teachers and chat to them a bit more as well as giving ds a chance to see if he likes it. there has g been any mention of him going into different classes piscesmoon - although that may be something we could suggest - we were discussing the possibility of him just being given different worksheets etc to work on. It still makes it a bit too formal and structured though- at such an early age! I just think HE would allow him to grow and develop a bit more independently - even if he does go to school in the future. I certainly don't think it will do him any harm!

Sorry I know this sounds like I'm obsessed with letters/ numbers etc when it comes to school and that's not the case at all. it just happens that the only real teaching that goes on in p1 is in something that ds already knows. At home is is much more interested in space and different countries and flags at the moment! I would rather he has the opportunity to explore those interests and any others that he may find rather than HAVING to do a particular subject/ topic because that's what everyone else is doing. How much flexibility can a school really have? Will DS really be able to learn about whales or something while the rest of the class are working on literacy?

There's an argument that schools were instituted to teach the three Rs- if your DC is doing fine with that already then what's the point? All this 'socialisation' nonsense talk is invented to justify their continuation, and the farming back of parents into the work/tax system. I think the fact that some subjects have to be specifically covered in schools - manners, sharing, hygiene, traffic awareness, respect, tolerance - is tragic... it's what children should be learning while out and about with their families!

(s'a teensy bit radical... )

I think I'd be inclined to go along with your DH's idea to give him the opportunity to try school and pull him out if it doesn't work for him. He may well thrive at school and he might not. But I think it'd be easier on him to do it that way than trying HE and introducing him to school later if that doesn't work for him. And you'd perhaps get better family support then too.
There's no reason why he can't still follow up his interests in whales/stars etc.

I would be inclined to agree with paisleyleaf. Schools are not just about 3R's-they have moved on from the 19th Century!
No school would mention him going up to learn with the older ones when they don't know him. I think you might be surprised by the level of ability generally-many DCs stating school can already read.I know many year 1 children who are reading Harry Potter. Unless you have a wide experience of what children can do at 4 yrs I would wait and see how advanced he is-he may not be the cleverest.
He is only at school for 6 hours a day and will be introduced to subjects that he hasn't even thought of. He has ample time around school to follow interests in whales etc-education doesn't end at 3.15pm.
School is a partnership robberbutton and things overlap-if parents are teaching sharing, tolerance etc school is a great place to practise it!
Schools are going back to learning through topics-(the literacy hour having been a dismal failure).

In my ds class they have different ability tables. The top ability table of about 5 children are way ahead and their educational needs well met. Work is taught on an individual basis. (my dc is not on this table )

It could be that the teacher you spoke to was non committal
at this stage as she is not aware of your ds ability. But once in school this would be recognised.

My ds loves school and is very sociable and its not just about the 3 rs.

I am not anti home ed, it is just not something I would have considered.

I don't think that any school is going to make arrangements for a child in advance. They are going to wait until he gets there and then assess him and act accordingly.
I would say that any intake is going to be a mix. The bulk will be ready to read but have not started and there will be some who are not ready to start and there will be those who can already read. If a school thinks that they all come in at the same standard and they can keep them there I would be very surprised.
I would at least go to the introduction days-even if you decide not to take it further.

I have 3 ds.

All of them have been H.E at varying points (due to school issues/long term illness etc)

Ds3 has never been to school well he did a 2 hour induction but thats it.

Im slightly different from most H.E parents on here - he doesnt have much to do with other children during the day- he spends his day learning,playing and being with 'real life' people but by 3.15pm hes outside or playing at someones house......I wouldnt be exagerating if I said at least 9 kids knock on the door for him before 3.30.

He has a great time-hes invited to all the parties,days out hes even practicing for his first holy communion with the other children from school - we attend school functions bcos I did have strong links to them and many of my friends children star in them.

Just because a child is in an educational environment doesnt mean he will be surrounded by children who are his 'friends' all day,nor does it mean a H.E child sits in a wardrobe all day.

My son had a fairly difficult time at school in KS1. He is a bright lad but has character traits which mean he wants to follow his own agenda, wants to refuse to do stuff he's not interested in, might not consider the interests/points of view of others.

At times we discussed HE, but in the end didn't. He's in Yr 6 now, has survived and is doing well.

The worry for me, in our situation, is that HE might have allowed him to become more entrenched in these behaviour patterns. As it is, he has had to muck in with everyone else and learn to adapt etc. Obviously we'll never know which was the right decision.

Personally I don't think that bright children usually have too much problems at the start of school- they can usually be found something to interest them. I think the problem comes at the top-end of school, when the curriculum comes to an abrupt end. We feel we are treading water until September.

Thank you for all your responses

paisleyleaf I thought it would be easier to try HE first to see if it works for us and be able to rule it out as an option if it doesn't. If he goes to school we may always wonder if HE would be better and I would really hate to take him out of school only to find that HE isn't suitable for us- v disruptive!

piscesmoon I don't expect them to say for definite what they will do for him without having met him - we were just discussing possible options and what they currently do for children who are ahead. I am in NI and they start school at 4 here (I think it is 5 in England?) so it isn't v common for children to be able to read fluently at that age -Maybe some word recognition and basic books. The headmistress has said there is only 1 little boy who was able to read this year but he didn't have the matching level of understanding of what he was Reading iykwim.

Maybe I need to clarify a bit more that ds has been able to read fluently since just before he turned three, he knew his alphabet at 18 months (reciting and recognising) he was able to count forward (and backward) to beyond 100 by age 2 and started to write when he was just over 2. He has moved on to learning other alphabets now. We have realised that he has a bit of a photographic memory which obviously suits that type of learning although we are aware that there are other areas that he needs to develop. I hate listing out things like this because I know it sounds boastful but I am just trying to make it clear that this isn't a simple case of 'my child can read so he will get bored'. we know how quickly he picks up information and we genuinely worry that he will get frustrated at school. At home he can move at his own pace as far as learning goes and we can continue to present other opportunities to him to allow him to develop in other areas that may be easier to provide at school (socialisation,group play etc) but are still possible with HE.

I may be a bit oversensitive here ( monthly hormones) but I do get the impression that some of you feel my reasons for considering HE aren't valid. I wonder what an 'acceptable' reason to HE is?

just thought i'd let you know we took our dd out of school after 7 months - she is autistic, extremely bright and the school environment was not right for her. She couldn't cope with the noise, numbers of children etc. Also she was bored!!! She knew how to read at 3 etc and still had to sit through the activities the others did. No matter how much a school nutures a child my general opinion is they do not have the resources to accommodate someone who is so much ahead than the others. HE has been great for us - although still has its trials and tribulations. I think being able to follow their lead and let them investigate things they show an interest in provides so much more of a varied learning for children and the one on one provides them again with so much more. I'm not dismissing school as it's something that having been through the system myself youautomatically think oh dd
s going to school but i certainly think he has a lot to offer, and it sounds like your ds would benefit from it, in my very humble opinion. I think especially as he's only 4 it wouldnt hurt to go down the he route and then see how it goes. If you feel school would offer him something he doesn't and wouldbenefit him more (maybe a few years down the line when peers are maybe at a more similar level in terms of the basics) then do that then. AS I say there are pros and cons for both but in my expe rience you can give your son time to develop not just his academic side (which he obviously enjoys) but also general real life situations - which may may be he won't get in school. Good luck,

bubbley, it's not that I don't think your reasons are valid. To me it doesn't really matter what the reasons are, so long as the reasons have the children's interests at heart. (I'd like to HE - but have realised it was something I wanted to do for myself iykwim).
It's just that you don't seem to have the backing from your DH (and GPs) who presumably know your DS very well too.
If your DS's dad was on board, it wouldn't be an issue and you wouldn't need to post.
I do also wonder, from your posts, if you've misunderstood what school is actually like and are making a decision based on misinformation. We start at 4 in England too, many children can read read already.
Your DS does sound like he's doing great (and I completely understand what you mean about listing what they can do and it sounding boastful - it can be difficult to say when your DCs are doing well, especially to other mums).
Has he been doing preschool/nursery? How's he got on with that?