Is this being reported anywhere?

[sorky]

I bought the Independent this morning thinking there would be a mention or even an article in there on this whole nonsense and there is absolutely nothing!

This is the worst thing that could happen, for it to sail through unnoticed unchallenged

Is it in any of the other papers?

I STILL don't get why you two don't get it Pisces and Seeker....you are both exhausting my brain here

OK. Humour me. In words of one syllable and for the last time tell me what I don't get.

But before you do - start from the assumption that I am wholly in favour of the right to educate ones child at home and I understand what autonomous education is.

Oh, and also assume that I have read and understood the review.

No. Sorry. I can't be bothered. I've read enough to see that your mind is set and how others have tried to explain it to you.

You have a right to your opinion, which I respect, but I cannot be arsed to try and convince you how wrong this review is.

If you can't see that I can't make you.

Brilliant. So you can fling insults about then when you're asked to justify them you "can't be arsed"

Just occasionally, other people have things to say that are worth listening to. And they have opinions which are not the same as yours but might also be right.

And if this review and the policy which might follow it are as bad as you think it's going to be, it might be worth your while to think about how you explain your perspective. I'm on your side and I have a lot of knowledge and I don't understand your concerns so how the fuck are the dullard jobsworths you might have to deal with in the future going to understand?

' If you follow autonomous education to the nth degree, the parent is obliged to facilitate the learning the child chooses and this includes the method, even school. Other children may get their choice if it coincides with what their parents provide, but autonomous education is the only form of education that gives the child the right to choose the education they prefer. '

This is what I think! I don't think it happens very often. I was a 4yr old who couldn't wait to go to school, but I get the distinct impression (actually stated on these threads several times) that at least 8 out of 10 posters would override this, in that they know what is best for their DC, and a 5 yr old doesn't. I wonder how many years some DCs have to state it before the parent lets them go? -even if it is only a couple, they have missed years that they can't get back.

My point, sharonsladskiff is that there is no point having an inspector who has no understanding, or sympathy with autonomous learning.

Glad you're amused, kaytee.It must be wonderful to have such certainties.
]

I find that one of the lasting legacies of my education is the knowledge that there is no one in the world I can't learn from, and that the more certain I am that I am unquestionably right the more I need to question myself.

Seeker said,
"OK. Humour me. In words of one syllable and for the last time tell me what I don't get."

I've explained my concerns about the review a few times and you've ignored them. Either you disagree with them or can't be bother to discuss the reasons I put forward. Either way, is it really worth me repeating myself again?

Just as a quick reminder,

• I am concerned about the damage caused by false positives when people go looking for abuse and neglect

• The harm done to the family by telling children that their parents cannot be trusted with their children and must be checked

• Autonomous education is very unlikely to be acceptable and even if they say it is, their attempts to agree annual plans and outcomes, review the work or test the child's knowledge annually will destroy autonomous education in the view of many autonomous educators.

• Up till now not even the police have automatic access to homes, the need a warrant and probable cause. This is a massive change in the balance of power between the state and the individual and it's being slipped into use through a minority group with very little debate in the wider community.

• I am concerned about the damage caused by false positives when people go looking for abuse and neglect

There is nothing in the review about looking for abuse and neglect. However i agree that the damage caused to families by false accusations is hideous. However, this can happen in any family. I don't see why these recommendations would make it any more likely in HE families.

• The harm done to the family by telling children that their parents cannot be trusted with their children and must be checked

why would you tell children this? Children at school don't trust their teachers any less because OFSTED inspectors come in.

• Autonomous education is very unlikely to be acceptable and even if they say it is, their attempts to agree annual plans and outcomes, review the work or test the child's knowledge annually will destroy autonomous education in the view of many autonomous educators.

"That parents be required to allow the child through exhibition or other means to demonstrate both attainment and progress in accord with the statement of intent lodged at the time of registration." So you tell them what your're intending to do over the year, and the child has a chat with them about the stuff they've done. If that is a year long project on earwigs or whatever, as I read it, that's covered. I agree however, that the inspectors would have to be educated about autonomous education, and this is a concern. however most HEd will not find a problem with the statement of intend and the "showing by exhibition or otherwise." The needs of autonomous educators will need to be safeguarded.

• Up till now not even the police have automatic access to homes, the need a warrant and probable cause. This is a massive change in the balance of power between the state and the individual and it's being slipped into use through a minority group with very little debate in the wider community.

Acytually, that's not true - lots of people have statutory right of entry to your home. Including meter readers. I have to be prepared for an unannounced visit from the Health and Safety people because I run a cake decorating business. But the inspectors are not going to be breaking the door down - they are going to arrange a visit with at least two weeks notice. Is this really a massive infringement of personal liberty?

Sharonlads,

I congratulate you on your patience.

piscesmoon said,
"This is what I think! I don't think it happens very often."

True autonomous education is probably quite rare. Two of my children have tried school, one for a term and one for half a term and I would have been happy for them to try it again at any point if they had wanted too.

piscesmoon said,
"I was a 4yr old who couldn't wait to go to school, but I get the distinct impression (actually stated on these threads several times) that at least 8 out of 10 posters would override this, in that they know what is best for their DC, and a 5 yr old doesn't."

Well that attitude is 'normal' isn't it? Most people who send their children take this approach to parenting. This attitude isn't really a reason for denying parents the choice to home educate their children if they feel it is the only way they can ensure they receive a suitable education (as the law requires of parents). It just happens that the autonomous approach is the most at risk from this review.

piscesmoon said,
"I wonder how many years some DCs have to state it before the parent lets them go? -even if it is only a couple, they have missed years that they can't get back."

The same applies to school children, just look at the number of truants who feel that they are missing years of their life because of school, but we don't give them the choice to be home educated. A friend of my daughter's didn't learn to read until he was 12 and he learnt from computer games, quite a common occurrence for home educators. However, this was a school child who feels that school had taken 12 years of his life. During this 12 years he was set work that he couldn't read and sat frequent tests and SATS that, of course, he failed (even when he could read he lacked knowledge from previous years so never caught up). He also truanted and lived under the constant threat of being taken back to school and/or his mother being sent to prison. Looking at the number of children who leave school functionally illiterate this situation isn't that uncommon. Whilst neither situation is 'right', I know which I would have preferred (assuming that neither home was what is commonly considered abusive or neglectful).

Of course it works the other way SLS. I was only talking about me-I wanted to go and I loved it and have wonderful memories of my village primary. I have read quite a few threads on here that start 'my DC loves school but I want to HE-what do I do?'

I think that a lot of HEers are all for autonomous education, as long as they approve of their DCs choices. If they don't approve the DC is suddenly too young to know their own mind.

However-this has nothing to do with OP.
I would say that we need a national debate on the purpose of education before the authorities even think about HE.

I know abuse is rare, but the poor little girl who starved to death might have survived with registration. Her old teachers were very concerned about her and went to the house, but of course they were powerless -they couldn't force admission. I don't know what they were doing about working through the official channels but I expect they had started to express concerns-however it was all too late.

The thing with a child choosing school in an autonomous family is that it's a decision which has an effect on the whole family.

If I had a child who wanted to focus on music and I couldn't afford the instruments she wanted - I wouldn't feel bad about asking her to spend time with me thinking about other ways we could meet her needs. The same with school, if my child wanted to go to school, but it would impact on other family members then I wouldn't feel bad about exploring other options before committing to it.

Family life is a balancing act - that doesn't change if you're a home ed or school family, autonomous or not.

My brother would have loved to have been HEed-he is the one doing his own DCs now. I think it would be highly unfair if his views had come first and I couldn't go because it wasn't convenient to get me there and back. The resentment as an adult would be huge! My brother and I are very different characters-we get on well, but I don't think that would have been the case if my wishes had been sacrificed.It is fairly easy to get one DC to school-and have one at home.

Lets just be clear the case you're referring to was a failure by the authorities. She wasn't deregistered for purposes of HE, she was removed from school due to bullying. The school raised their concerns about the family and nothing was done.
SAO did call, but got no answer, no further attempts were made. They can bleat on about "no right of entry to the home" but they were hardly persistent were they?

Seeker how do you know that children don't lose confidence in their teacher when OFSTED visit?

In a good school the DCs don't notice when Ofsted visit. Last month the 6 yrs olds said to their teacher in an accusing way 'you said we were having a government visitor'(I can't remember the exact wording)-they thought they had missed out! The inspector had been in the room and they hadn't even noticed!!

A good school is always having visitors-they don't bat an eye!

H&S don't visit to check your parenting Seeker and the meter reader is not there to see if you can carry on having a service either.

The difficulty with the "plans in advance" is that we don't know what our children will be interested in over the year, if you follow this approach.

There are educators who will NOT be able to say what their child is interested in next year, if they can, then I must be missing a trick

you still don't know if they've lost confidence in their teacher though

Why would they lose confidence in a teacher because of an inspection?
Schools have visitors all the time.
When I go and teach I never know who is going to be in the room with me. It isn't as if DCs are isolated in a room with one teacher.
I only did an afternoon today, but I had a traveller's DC and it was the day for his support teacher to come in and so she just joined in with us, I also had a TA and a parent appeared at one point to hear readers. They were 5 and 6 yr olds-they really wouldn't know if it was an inspector or not.
The Head watches all lessons at some point and sits in a corner with a notepad. I fail to see why any of this makes the DC lose confidence in a teacher!

My point was directed at Seeker who failed to see why children could lose faith in a parent from having to perform for an inspector.
My response to her post about school kids don't lose faith is to say, well actually who says they don't, have you asked them?

Simply turning the question back and saying where is the proof that school children don't?

I meet lots every week and I can't think of a single one! For all the reasons that I have given above.
A Head, or senior management observe teachers lessons on a regular basis,advisors come in from the LEA, children who need support form outside agencies come in and observe the child in a normal lesson, student teachers observe lessons, there are open days when parents come around, governors observe lessons or help, parents come in and help, teachers from other schools watch lessons, even the local MP has been known to pop in. An Ofsted inspector is only one of many and is no big deal to the DCs-they chat to them and ask about their work-as do lots of other people.
Maybe if staff made a big thing of it or the DCs weren't used to anyone else in the classroom they might lose faith I suppose, but a teacher isn't working in isolation with the DCs.

"There are events that HEers could join- for example when my DS went to a very small school, all the small schools joined together for history days. He dressed up as an evacuee and got the train-all the teachers were in 1940's dress. Another time they were Saxons. It just needs imagination and vision"

Yawn!
been there done that made the T shirt, printed the book..........

all without any involvement from the LA......all done by HE parent good will.

I know abuse is rare, but the poor little girl who starved to death might have survived with registration. Her old teachers were very concerned about her and went to the house, but of course they were powerless -they couldn't force admission

Bull

If they had concerns-and they did.
They could have done something about it
and they didn't.

AND
she had been to school-so she WAS registered!!!!!