Is this being reported anywhere?

[sorky]

I bought the Independent this morning thinking there would be a mention or even an article in there on this whole nonsense and there is absolutely nothing!

This is the worst thing that could happen, for it to sail through unnoticed unchallenged

Is it in any of the other papers?

FJ I was told the same.

Among the reasons for HE for us is the fact that at school you are told you can't take Art because you aren't very good at it, you won't get a good grade!
What about the love of it? regardless of whether you're crap.

Ditto for music

It's all about grades, not learning.

I agree that there are problems with schools - and I would be equally outraged if my school child was taught that girls can't do science or that being gay was wrong or that women were second class citizens. But that just wouldn't happen. It would have done when I was young, but not now. And if it was, I would know what to do to challenge the school/teacher doing it - and the teacher would be disciplined for it. Because it would be against explicit policies that schools are obliged to follow.

There is noting to stop a HEer teaching these things.

"Among the reasons for HE for us is the fact that at school you are told you can't take Art because you aren't very good at it, you won't get a good grade!
What about the love of it? regardless of whether you're crap.

Ditto for music

It's all about grades, not learning."

Not at our school it isn't. My ds is seriously crap at art - no one has ever told him he can't do it because he isn't very good at it.

I think schools have changed a lot since many adults went to them!

Seeker. There may be nothing preveting a HEer from teaching such erroneous philosophies to their children, but should we assume that children who attend and then go home from school are not being taught such things? Of the many terrorists, fascists, gay-bashers, etc. Have not the vast majority gone to schools, even very distinguished educational institutions?

You cannot stamp out all ignorance, and I object to your using the worse extremes among those of whatever belief as examples to defend your argument.

Perhaps lots of schools have changed. But the fact still remains that as long as government requires that schools be primarily assessed on the value of how many children gained GCSEs at A to C grades etc, then their main focus will have to be getting children to pass as many exams with decent grades as they are able.

"You cannot stamp out all ignorance, and I object to your using the worse extremes among those of whatever belief as examples to defend your argument."

Why? I'm talking about extremes. 99.9% of HEers wouldn't dream of teaching their children stuff like this. But we have to think about the .01%

And of course children who go to school could be taught this crap when they get home. But at school they will be exposed to other beliefs and philosophies and ways of thinking. They have a chance to make choices. For SOME (not the word SOME) HE children those choices are not available.

"I agree that there are problems with schools - and I would be equally outraged if my school child was taught that girls can't do science or that being gay was wrong or that women were second class citizens. But that just wouldn't happen. It would have done when I was young, but not now. And if it was, I would know what to do to challenge the school/teacher doing it - and the teacher would be disciplined for it. Because it would be against explicit policies that schools are obliged to follow. "

Oh seeker.

If you honestly believe schools to be like that, I really see why you are arguing against us.

I would say that the majority of home educators do have some form of recent school experience. At a rough guess, I'd say around 50% of HErs are teachers. Of the remainder, a good percentage have worked in schools.

At a guess, I'd say most HEing families have had at least one child in school at some point.

Most of us do actually have recent experience of the UK school system. We are not, in the main, arguing from our own experiences with Miss Hardbroom and her whip circa 1875.

These issues tend to be quite insiduous. You are not going to get the Head standing up in assembly and saying "Girls Shouldn't Do Science.". What you might well get is a culture where the underepresentation of girls in sciences, particularly Not Biology, is not challenged among the over-worked staff (with whom I have huge sympathy).

Many people home educate because they want their child to enjoy learning. Many children who go to school learn that being clever isn't cool and, judging by the other teenagers on my DD's college course, how to do just enough, but no more, to gain a pass. Why should we give up what we want out children to learn to prevent a small minority teaching their children something others don't like?

Current law is sufficient to deal with situations where a parent isn't providing a suitable education. LEAs fail to use it or fail to use it correctly, but that's not our fault.

oh and "Of the many terrorists, fascists, gay-bashers, etc. Have not the vast majority gone to schools, even very distinguished educational institutions? "

(um-isn't that the entire point of the public school system? To produce Great Leaders who don't bat an eyelid before sending our 17 year olds off to kill other 17 year olds because, you know, we really want their oil?)

I'll tell you what else

Never ONCE have I heard "gay" being used as an insult by a HE'd kid.

"99.9% of HEers wouldn't dream of teaching their children stuff like this. But we have to think about the .01%"

So we should cast aside the freedoms of the 99.9 percent, in order to eliminate the (theoretical) 0.1% percent?

How many other situations or groups would you be willing to apply the same measure to?

"So we should cast aside the freedoms of the 99.9 percent, in order to eliminate the (theoretical) 0.1% percent?"

No. That's not what I said. I GENUINELY don't see why showing what you're doing once a year to a properly trained inspector is 'casting aside your freedoms"

The problem with discussions like this is they always get to a point where the HEers say "This is what schools are like" and I say "Well, that isn't my experience'

Then somebody usually says that that my experience isn't valid because I feel guilty because I don"t HE my children!

I don't say that all HEers are the same - why is it OK to say all schools are?

Seeker,

Please would you outline what this "properly trained inspector" would be "properly trained" to assess. What "standards" do you think we should be assessed and compared to?

You really don't get it do you?

"That parents be required to allow the child through exhibition or other means to demonstrate both attainment and progress in accord with the statement of intent lodged at the time of registration."

In other words, you you tell them what you and your child are intending to do , then show them you've done it.

The idea that schools can spot abuse that might not be seen if a child is HE is a non-starter, IMVHO.

My two eldest sons (11 and 9) go to an OFSTED rated 'good' school. DS1 spent a whole day at school with Bell's Palsy last week. When I picked him up in the afternoon he looked like a Picasso painting. He said that his face had started to 'feel funny' during the morning and that he hadn't been able to drink at lunchtime as he was dribbling out of the left side of his face.

The school had not noticed or informed us

DS2's teacher didn't know that he had an elder brother in the school after two terms of teaching.

These are (on the whole) good people with the best intentions but, because they spend so much time 'delivering the curriculum' and ticking boxes for OFSTED, there is B all time or opportunity to get to know or have any 'face time' with the children in their care.

Signs of abuse can often be subtle and difficult to spot and, if my sons' 'good' school is anything to go by, they would be missed.

seeker. I think what most people on this thread are worried about is the fact that their children's future education depends on the views of the inspector they encounter. From reading this board there have been reports of inspectors 'in tune' with autonomous education who understand that, although the child's educational journey might not be one they are familiar with, the child ends up where he or she could/should be. There have also been reports of LA's that seem to instinctively distrust autonomous HE.

DS1 starts HE in September purely because the state secondary schools in our area are dire. His allocated school is planning to introduce knife arches and has a dedicated police unit on-site. He will be learning with an internet school and, as such, will be following timetables etc. I am not particularly worried about an inspection but I can understand why others are.

I think the DC should be central.
I am all for weeding out poor teachers and also poor HEers. Most teachers are good, most HEers are good-but not all are, in either case.

Nope, you REALLY don't get it Seeker. You have to be able to think outside of the box to understand.

It's not your fault you can't get your head round it. I was the same before I took my dc out 4 years ago so I know the place you're in atm. It's like beating your head against a brick wall trying to get people to grasp the whole idea of an autonomous education when they're so stuck in the system, iyswim.

You may one day begin to see what we mean if/when freedoms that you hold dear are held to ransom or indeed taken away all together.

I truly hope you never have to experience it.

You have no idea what I know about autonomous education or what educational experience I have. I am not "stuck in the system". i was wondering when the " you're so blinkered and istitutionalized you can't possibly understand, you poor dear? line would come out.

You have not explained why you think that allowing your child to show someone once a year what they have been doing is taking away your freedom.

I just do not understand why you are so defensive. As far as I am aware, no-one has ever been forced to send their children to school against their will under the current system, and this review actually states that the person doing the "inspecting' should have an understanding of the different types of HE that are practiced. Which certainly isn't the case under the current system,

Touched a nerve did I?

I beg your pardon?

Also perhaps you'd like to tell what you actually do know about autonomous HE?

seker. The problem, as I see it, is that whether the person doing the inspection 'shows an understanding' and, working in education, I know that this could translate to a three day course -he or she will have the power to report and recommend that registration is taken away from a HE family and their child be forced to return to school.

I may have got it wrong, but I have a feeling that seeker was HEed as a DC, so she actually has knowledge of what it is like to be on the receiving end rather than the parent. (I apologise if I have this wrong seeker-it is just that your views seem to be dismissed as if you have no idea what you are talking about).

Budgets are stretched. Training will be cursory.

I am an adult who was HEd, 6 of my 8 nieces and nephews are/were HEd - 4 of them autonomously. I have read extensively on the subject, and I currently tutor 3 HEd children in my area.

What is your experience of school based eduaction?