Is this being reported anywhere?

[sorky]

I bought the Independent this morning thinking there would be a mention or even an article in there on this whole nonsense and there is absolutely nothing!

This is the worst thing that could happen, for it to sail through unnoticed unchallenged

Is it in any of the other papers?

I have also read the actual words in the review, not what I think it says, or what I'm worried it might say, or what another review in 10 years time might say.

I thought I was right seeker. I find it strange that adults who were HEed are never listened to unless they 'toe the party line'.

I am also surprised that HEers put so much srtore on an Ofsted report. A good Ofsted doesn't mean it is a good school, or it doesn't mean it is a good school for your DC.
My DCs have never been expected to drop a subject because they are no good at it-as reported some time back on this thread-I would be horrified if they were.

Ok, I'm an adult who was state schooled. My dc went to state schools until 4 years ago.

They were stifled at school and their love of learning was killed, stone dead.

I found out about autonomous HE over the last 3 years and we decided to follow that path. They have been transformed during that period and are happy and confident as a result.

So did/do you have a bad experience of autonomous HE as a dc then Seeker? You seem very "active" on the HE threads, which I find interesting. Almost like you are only here to put people off the idea of HE.

Btw, I was not trying to be insulting, I just despair when people try to get me to justify what is, in law for now, my (and my dcs') lifestyle choice.

Pisces, that's "tow the party line"

Sorry Kayteee-quite right-the result of dinner out and several glasses of wine!
I will go to bed and leave you to it!

Eeeek!! Pisces!! I stand corrected..it's toeing

Good-after I wrote right-I was thinking 'what are you towing?!'
I am too confused to know now!

No. I had an almost universally positive experience of HE personally, and most of the people I know who are doing it are doing a brilliant job. All but one of my nieces and sephews are happy and doing well, so that's a pretty good hit rate!

And I'm active on HE threads because it's something I know about and am interested and passionate about. I don't know where I gave the impression that I want to put people off - nothing could be further from the truth.

I do find it exasperating (to put it mildly) that it is not "allowed" to discuss any potential negatives of HE, or to suggest that schools are not all bad, or to suggest that officialdom may not actually be out to
"get" HErs.

I once posted about how I felt that some things I find difficult in adult life were a direct result of my HE childhood - and I was descended on and assured that I must have had a pre existing psychological problem which would have been far worse if I had gone to school! I realize that it is the zeal of the evangelist, but it is rather tiresome. As is the suggestion,not on this thread, but on many others, that if you REALLY cared for your children, you would home educate them

"You have not explained why you think that allowing your child to show someone once a year what they have been doing is taking away your freedom."

Ah you see the is the hub of the problem for me.

It is not my just freedom I am worried about.
It is most importantly, my child's freedom not to be made to demonstrate the suitability of the education I am providing-and certainly the freedom not to have to exhibit it.

My children were so unhappy in school two of them wanted to die.

The LA did not give a toss about failing to meet their SEN then.

For a long time our children were left as quivering wrecks at the thought of being tested/exhibiting/demostrating suitability.
It was a long time before I could get my 13 year old son to talk to the ice cream man on his own, after the damage school had done to him-let alone the bloody LA!

Now my children are happy confident people.
The youngest spent a fair bit of time saying this directly to Badman directly.
She explained what it would be like to demand this of many HEd children-especially those who had severe SEN and those withdrawn because of deep unhappiness in school.

I am doing what I am supposed to-I am listening to and respecting my childs wishes and freeedoms -and in this case it is the freedom NOT to be inspected

Seeker, you say your experience of HE was a good one as a child. What if some state expert, deemed so by the government of the day, had decided that your parents were not providing you with appropriate education?

Would you have minded, as a kid, if your parents had been over-ruled and your wishes to be HEd dismissed?

Seeker said,
"You have not explained why you think that allowing your child to show someone once a year what they have been doing is taking away your freedom."

I'll quote a passage by a well known autonomous home educator (well known in HE circles, anyway):

"Having a home visit (or any kind of face-to-face meeting) with a person standing in judgement over your whole life-style can be destructive of autonomous education, for it would be a very unusual child who did not experience a narrowing of choices, and very unusual parents who could entirely protect their child from anxiety ? and therefore from a loss of spontaneous motivation ? at the very prospect of such a judgement."

www.fitz-claridge.com/Articles/Evidence.html

This is what you don't understand about autonomous education. A central feature for many autonomous home educators (some would say essential) is that should be intrinsically motivated, not externally motivated and producing and displaying work for an inspection is external motivation.

Also, I very much doubt they would agree to a 12 month plan of, "I intend to support and facilitate my child as they follow their interests", so autonomous home educators wouldn't even pass the start post.

'Seeker, you say your experience of HE was a good one as a child. What if some state expert, deemed so by the government of the day, had decided that your parents were not providing you with appropriate education?'

I don't think this would happen-if it was a good experience it would shine out.
I come on to these threads because my brother and SIL do it, and I find the whole subject fascinating.

'I do find it exasperating (to put it mildly) that it is not "allowed" to discuss any potential negatives of HE, or to suggest that schools are not all bad, or to suggest that officialdom may not actually be out to
"get" HErs.'

That point of seekers is the main one that irritates me and her last point that anyone who cares for their DC would HE.

A lot depends on the DC. A couple of weeks ago in the Sunday Times page on relationships there was a very laid back, anti establishment, anti authority dad but his DD was a structured, highly organised girl. Luckily they had money and she insisted on boarding school, it gave her what she wanted. As an adult she got on really well with her father but she had plenty of embarrassment when younger.

I think that the DC is central. I am all for the rights of the DC to have the sort of education that suits them, whether structured or automomous-home or school. The rights of the parents are secondary IMO. A wish to HE doesn't mean that you are good at it.

In cases where it means control, as in Christian HE in the US where parents don't want their DCs exposed to other views I don't think it is a good thing.

Yes but this thread is not about whether you think HE is good or not. It is about the review!!

"Yes but this thread is not about whether you think HE is good or not. It is about the review!! "

So how come it was appropriate for you to make that remark about me only being here to put people off HE?

seeker was making lots of points about the review-if fact she was quoting whole chunks-but she her views were being dismissed.

I think that actually having a review is a very good thing. However it needs to go much further and HEers need to work with the LEA so that something is set up that is beneficial to HEers. I think that Ofsted should go into schools and advise and help-I can't see that it is very helpful to 'name and shame'. In the same way LEAs-rather than have inspectors-could have people sympathetic to the aims of HE who could advise and make people aware of the services on offer. There are events that HEers could join- for example when my DS went to a very small school, all the small schools joined together for history days. He dressed up as an evacuee and got the train-all the teachers were in 1940's dress. Another time they were Saxons. It just needs imagination and vision.
Unfortunately there is no money and I can't see the point of an inspector going in and talking about attainment targets and monitoring etc.
I can't see it working-if people won't comply they can hardly put them in prison!

Sorry-I should proof read ,cross off the 'she'.

The point is that already WITHOUT extra powers, and under the present laws, LA officials do not always respect HEers. PARTICULARY those who choose to educate autonomously. This is not some myth that exists in the mind of HEers. This is FACT plain and simple. Not a conspiracy theory. FACT. That is why there has been a need for HE organisations like EO, who spend a considerable portion of their budget helping to defend the rights of HEers. You can try to ignore this if you like, but it doesn't fail to make it true.

The idea of LA officials receiving yet more powers is of great concern. In any large bureaucratic structure you get unreasonable individuals; another fact. Everyone knows of either an awful Housing Officer, Health Visitor, Social Worker, Traffic Warden, Judge, or Head Teacher etc. There may be a thousand good Housing Offcers, Health Visitors, Social Workers, Traffic Wardens, Judges, or Head Teachers, but you only need one incompetent one to make yor life difficult or very difficult depending on the situation.

The laws effective at this moment strike the right balance between parent, child, family and government. The new recommendations place the bulk of power in the hands of governmental local authorities and makes a parents right to HE far more subjective to the extrinsic analysis of another person.

Morning Kayteee! I have a fuzzy morning head. What am I doing on mumsnet this early?

Oh. It's past 9 o'clock!

Going back to pre school children ...

I am a childminder and I am required to monitor the children (from babies) in my care as they follow the Early Years Foundation Stage. I am inspected to ensure that I am following this 'curriculum'. If you choose to 'HE' your 0-5 yr old, would you be happy for the LA to come and inspect your provision and monitor your child? Would you be able to show them your plans?

This is effectively what is happening to the older 'school age' children.

Piscesmoon said,
"'I think that the DC is central. I am all for the rights of the DC to have the sort of education that suits them, whether structured or automomous-home or school. The rights of the parents are secondary IMO. A wish to HE doesn't mean that you are good at it."

But autonomous home education can and does include school. If you follow autonomous education to the nth degree, the parent is obliged to facilitate the learning the child chooses and this includes the method, even school. Other children may get their choice if it coincides with what their parents provide, but autonomous education is the only form of education that gives the child the right to choose the education they prefer. In the article you describe it sounds as though the child chose the education she wanted and the parent provided it. She was autonomously educated (if she was free to change her mind at any point).

Piscesmoon, you don't seem to believe that the review will prevent autonomous home education but do you really think they are going to accept a plan of:

"I intend to support and facilitate my child as they follow their interests. My child will not be compelled to complete any assigned work, will not be compelled to put anything down on paper or record it in any way (though they are free to do so if they choose) and will not be compelled to allow access to any work they do produce"

This is our approach to autonomous home education and the following is the recommendation from the report:

"* At the time of registration parents/carers/guardians must provide a clear statement of their educational approach, intent and desired/planned outcomes for the child over the following twelve months.

• Guidance should be issued to support parents in this task with an opportunity to meet local authority officers to discuss the planned approach to home education and develop the plan before it is finalised. The plan should be finalised within eight weeks of first registration."

and later,

"That the DCSF review the current statutory definition of what constitutes a ?suitable? and ?efficient? education in the light of the Rose review of the primary curriculum,...[the definition] should not be overly prescriptive but be sufficiently defined to secure a broad, balanced, relevant and differentiated curriculum that would allow children and young people educated at home to have sufficient information to enable them to expand their talents and make choices about likely careers. The outcome of this review should further inform guidance on registration."

The last line clearly suggests that if they don't agree with your plans they can refuse registration. You say, "if it was a good experience it would shine out", but if it's impossible to get through the initial stages and be granted registration, there will be no opportunity for anything to shine out.

The Badman report states this about autonomous education:

"First, what constitutes ?autonomous? learning. Could it be, as many home educating parents have argued, it defies definition but provides the ultimate opportunity for children to develop at their own rate and expands their talents and aptitudes thought the pursuit of personal interest. Or, does it present a more serious concern for a quality of education that lacks pace, rigour and direction. I come to no conclusion but believe further research into the efficacy of autonomous learning is essential."

So he isn't sure if autonomous education is OK or not, despite plenty of research to show that it is, and thinks that more research is essential. But if his recommendations go ahead (and the government seem keen) it will be impossible to carry out the research because autonomous education will no longer exist in it's current form.

BTW, I disagree with Badman that autonomous HE defies definition (along with a few other things!). It is easy to define but it does defy planned outcomes and constant monitoring and testing that it is achieving the planned outcomes, all of which are anathema to autonomous education but dearly loved by Badman.

Apologies for the serial postings!

Just wanted to agree with this

But autonomous home education can and does include school. If you follow autonomous education to the nth degree, the parent is obliged to facilitate the learning the child chooses and this includes the method, even school. Other children may get their choice if it coincides with what their parents provide, but autonomous education is the only form of education that gives the child the right to choose the education they prefer. In the article you describe it sounds as though the child chose the education she wanted and the parent provided it. She was autonomously educated (if she was free to change her mind at any point).

My dd was autonomously HEed for three years.
She then decided she wanted to go to school. Because our main value was that she be in charge of her learning, we agreed that she go.
She has almost finished her first year and is thriving. She went in and was a bit ahead of her classmates, and we do worry that she is not being challenged enough there. But she still comes home and sets herself projects and experiments, so she still loves to learn and progress.
I say it's because her fist real experience of education was relaxed and exciting for her - not forced in any way.

So I have seen both sides of it.
I am very much opposed to some of these 'recommendations', and do believe that this is just a way for the government & the LEA's to gain more control over WHAT our children are learning.
I do worry that many parents will be forced to place their children in school against their wishes because the LEA have decided that the parents are not giving a 'broad & balanced' curriculum (in their opinion) based on them not understanding how HE actually works in practice.