A Home Ed am I being unreasonable - HEers, please help.

[Callisto]

DP and I discussed in depth our relative feelings about school and HE and I found to my horror that he is fundamentally opposed to HE, despite acknowledgeing that I am doing an 'excellent job' teaching DD the basics so far.

His main arguement against is that we have the opportunity of a place at a very good primary and we would be mad to pass it up. The primary is good, as far as any state run school can be good, but I don't believe DD will thrive there - quite the opposite infact. DP's 'concession' to me is to make DD go for a month and if she still hates it by the end of this time we will pull her out and HE.

I know I'm being unreasonable and that it is a solution of sorts, and that if I insist on not sending DD to school it could mean a big rift happens in my relationship with DP, but, but, but, but...

I don't really know what I'm asking for here, I'm very down about it all and tired as I didn't really sleep last night so probably not thinking as clearly as I might. Maybe some help so that I can put together a counter-arguement? Thanks all.

PS If you think I'm barking and should just pack DD off to school please could you keep such thoughts to yourself? I know it's an open forum etc, etc, but I'm feeling a bit raw and could do without anyone else telling me I'm wrong.

why not let her go and decide for herself if she is happy. i think you should do a whole term.

you and your dh are in a partnership and you have to compromise and respect each others ideas.

I completely sympathise with you but your probably not going to like my response!

I HE my ds1 for a year - dh not over enthusiastic about it but went along with it - but started after about a year making noises that he felt ds would be better off at school - he was bored, lonely etc.

I was completely against it and felt that ds was better at school - all this was kept away from ds so he wasnt aware of our "discussions"!

DS had friend over who goes to school next day he asks to go back to school! After lots of discussion we find a school that suits him and he has now been there 3 months and is loving it - he really enjoys it and im glad he's gone back - he is happier and so am i.

He had been to school before he was HEd though so knew what he ws going back to. But the year of HE did him the world of good - he returned a far more happier and confident boy than when i deregistered him first time round!

I dont envy your decision - it is hard when you are not agreeing on something so vital - has he given his specific reasons?

Just read message sorry should read

I was completely against it and felt that ds was better at HOME (oops)

Has your DP met any other home educators?
Many parents don't understand home education at first-and it is usually the parent who is out at work and not doing the day to day parenting.

YANBU but most people don't know anyone who HEs and we have all been brainwashed into believing that schooling and being sat down and taught is the only way to learn.
He isn't being unreasonable either, just being a concerned Dad who wants what he believes is the best (and normal) for his child.

Going along to home ed meetings and seeing how the children of all ages thrive and have such a good time, getting an education along the way, can often help, as can talking to other parents-especially to Dads if there are any attending the local group. Talking around his concerns to others (who will have had the same concerns, in the beginning) may well help to reassure him.

Have you thought about a pros and cons of school vs HE? How would your (joint) parenting philosophy/ideals fit in with school/HE?

If your daughter did go for a month, who would decide if she hated it?
You or the teacher or your dd?
When my children went to school, our ds told me from the first day, that he didn't want to go anymore.Teachers said he was fine, happy when I wasn't there. I believed them.
I know now of course, that he did whatever he thought was best to please the teacher/said whatever was necessary to get by.
Not many people listen to a small child properly, around school issues.

Would your DP read any of the books about how children learn?
Something by John Holt maybe?

Is the primary school so popular that you have no chance of getting in at a later date? I wonder if you could agree to give HE a go and review it all in a years time?

I think YANBU and should do whatever your DC wants to do.

If I thought DD would be happy at school I would send her, but right now she is very against the idea. I really want to wait for a couple of years until she is older and more confident (she is very shy and does not like big groups). She wouldn't miss out academically or socially and she would be a bit more mature and confident and able to cope with school. DP thinks that we won't get a place at the school in a couple of years, particularly if we turn the place down now.

Hi Callisto,
How long have you been HEing if I may ask?

But you are sending her just to keep a place...at what cost to her? Is the potential distress for her worth it to your DP?

Callisto - sympathies

I think what julie thewiseone! says is right

Cant write more now as am supposed to be going out - I would say go with your gut feeling

My ds is desperately unhappy at school - off yesterday and today and is so much happier already

Missed your response Julie. I am going to arrange a meeting with an HE family that I know and also have the 'How Children Learn at Home' book which I want him to read. I've given him links to EO and the Rothermel research also.

I know he isn't being unreasonable which is why I find the whole situation so difficult. We both want what is best for DD and he is a fantastic hands on dad, it is just a shock that our outlook on this one thing are so far apart (we normally agree on most things).

I think DD will make the decision, she is very articulate and I will certainly be listening to her.

As for education philosophy - I will really struggle to put across the benefits of school as I don't see that there are many. It will be very difficult for me to convince DD that forcing her into school uniform and into school every day will be 'good' for her.

Sorry, keep cross-posting. I'm not actively HEing as she is just 4 and meant to start school in September. However, I am getting involved with the local HE families and groups.

Flamingo - I know, I feel very bad about it, especially as there is another family whose child didn't get a place at this school. I wish I could tell the school that we don't want the place. Trouble is if I force the issue I am worried about the future of DP and my relationship.

I think he is BU, callisto, to want to put your DD through something you're fairly certain she won't like and will find distressing just so you can keep a school place.

I don't think you should go against your daughters needs and wishes now (both you and she thinks school not right atm, yes?) in order to secure a particular school place just in case that turns out to be what she needs and wants in a year or 2 years or 3 years.

practically speaking, people are always moving in and out of areas. You could simply put her on the waiting list at regular intervals and when you get to the top of it, you either say "yes! we want the place now" or "not yet, please put us to the bottom of the list again". The nice thing about HE is that if the school said "we'll have a place in 6 months" you could say "yeah, ok, tell us what would be useful to do in that time so dd will slot in academically"

And emotionally speaking - well, your daughter can only experience the Now. What's the point in suffering now in order to (maybe) be in a position to enjoy something in 3 or 4 years? That's as long as she's been alive almost - unimaginably long. And having suffered and not enjoyed school in September, won't that risk putting the kybosh on enjoying it at the point when she's actually ready? Set her up to succeed - send her when she is ready and wants to go!

That's the argument I'd be using. Oh, plus, however good the school is, you and Dh are not the ones being asked to spend 6 hours a day in it.

Ds's Dad works for the DCSF and was extremely opposed to me taking ds out 4 years ago. He is over the moon about it all now and can see that it can work really well. We are autonomous and ds follows his own interests, so not "schooled" in any way.

Could you not reverse this and say, look dd hates the idea so we could try the HE route first. Maybe agree on a year trial or something. I don't think it's worth putting your dd through the stress of going somewhere she doesn't feel ready for. I can see he's got good intentions but, IMO, 4 is so very little to be starting anyway. Sometimes going with your gut is the only way to go. The other thing is that it's much more hassle taking dc out of school than if they do't start in the first place, iyswim.

Kayteee - I've tried that approach and he says that we would be mad to give up the place at the school. I also think that 4 is too young which is why I looked into HE in the first place. Unfortunately, DP is of the 'never did me any harm' mindset and tells me that despite canings in primary school he still enjoying it.

Justabout & Ommmward - excellent suggestions both. I will mail him and use some of these points of view. Though as far as asking DD what she wants, he will say that she always says no to everything new and that it is her default answer (it isn't but she can be negative about new things if she is worried about them, though this is improving). I will tell him that he needs to anyway.

Calisto, why do you think dd will not thrive in the school? Is this based on your dds experience of education or yours?

Why is dd not happy about school? Is this based on her feelings from experience or her feelings from what you have told her about school?

I am not trying to suggest you have done anything wrong here, I am trying to understand how the current situation has arisen. IF you have experience - with your dd - that makes it clear to you that main stream school would not work out for her then you need to stick to your guns IMHO and educate your dp as far as you can. If however, your feelings are based on general feelings about main stream school not your dd in particular (IYSWIM) then I would say your dp is right, you should give her a decent opportunity there, encourage and support her and see how it works out.

IMHO it is far harder fo a child to integrate into school late having never experienced main stream schooling than it is for a child to adapt to HE from a school.

I can imagine this is very hard for you though, you have clearly put a lot of thought, time and effort into your plans for HE and I am sure finding out that you have differing opinions to someone so close to you and your dd must have been a shock.

For me and my children Main stream works - and works very well. They enjoy it and I could not HE, I do not have the right qualities for it, however, I know other families where the dc clearly are so much better off at home that no-one could argue it. I think all you dp is asking is for your dd to have the opportunity to find out for herself which category she falls into.

Sorry, Callisto

KingCanute - it is all very subjective of course, but my belief that DD won't enjoy school is based on her not enjoying toddler group despite persevering with it for quite a while (I enjoyed it more than her), not being comfortable in situations where it is lots of children her own age and being very shy and a little bit different to other children. She has always been 'high maintenance' in that she can be clingy (how I hate that word!) and only I will do, though she will happily play by herself for a couple of hours at a time while I do other stuff. It's hard to explain and I certainly don't think that she is better than other children.

Oh no Callisto, I was not implying you did - at all! I don't for a second think that people HE their children because their children are better than others in some way

Does your dp think tht school might help her with the feelings she has had in the past? (I hate to call them problems or ishoos). I know I would see it as the perfect opportunity for her to learn indepedance and self reliance - but then I have very positive experiences of main stream school for my children. I am not trying to say that this is the right answer for your child, I am just trying to present ideas on where dp is coming from.

FWIW, I do think he is being reasonable, of course reasonable does not always mean right. IT is so tough!

Sorry, I didn't think that you were implying I thought she was better than other children, it's just that some people can be quite sensitive about things and saying my child should be HE'd because she is different could be construed as saying my child should be HE'd because she is better, iyswim...

DP does think that school will give her confidence, but as a shy person myself I think the opposite and from personal experience, school actually knocked my confidence very badly, to the extent that it took me years to be comfortable with myself. I really don't want DD to go through the whole school popularity contests thing as I feel she will not do well.

It is really difficult, I really believe that school is different for everyone, just because it was that way for you does not mean it will be that way for her - but you know that already and knowing that does not make it any easier to drop her into a situation you are uncomfortable with.

I don't know if I can be of any constructive help here TBH! I am arguing myslef round in circles! I think your dp is being reasonable and may actually be right, I think you are being reasonable and may also be right. I think that school may really help her - in the longer term perhaps - but I also think she may benefit massivly from HE from such a prepared and caring parent. Argh!

I suppose I come back to my original point - Moving from school to HE is much easier than moving from HE to school. There - my final but not at all helpful answer to your Op

Can I just put in a warning note about letting her decide? She's 4 - she has no experience of school. I really think that there are some decisions that children need their parents to make for them. And this is one. My children both love school and have had very positive experiences of it but if I asked either of them whether they wanted to stay home instead they would say yes! Her thoughts should be part of the decision making process, but only part. You and dp have to come to a compromise - but it has to be your decision, not hers.

Very shy, 'different' children can thrive at school. You could be describing my DD when she was 4 but she really came out of herself in reception and gained enormous amounts of confidence. School isn't what it was like when we went (30+ years ago in my case).

I'm concerned that HE your DD would almost encourage her to remain 'clingy', 'shy' and 'different', although I hate to use those words.

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. My dh is supportive of home ed, but it took some discussions for him to see that children can be trusted to learn themselves and not have to be actively taught.

Even for me it was a huge eye-opener to really understand the difference between being taught something and learning something.

I would start by having him give his reasons. For instance, how exactly will school improve her confidence. Anyone can make a statement, but there needs to be a reason for it. Whereas you could counter with, for instance, a swimming pool analogy, sure you could just chuck a child in a pool and see what happens, or you can slowly introduce your child to it, with you as a flotation device. Or some such!

There is info out there to back up all kinds of pro-home ed arguments. In fact recently I was reading this teacher training book written by a teacher who went on to train teachers, and the first half was about how people learn the best, and the second part performed a lot of contortions in how to apply that to a classroom! The two are very difficult to reconcile!

I don't know! I don't know what might work.