But what about socialisation? School is essential for all children........

[Yurtgirl]

I was talking to a teacher friend (so clearly biased!) of mine the other day about my sons difficulties at school and the fact that we are very tempted to HE him (and his sister) instead.

I feel completely worn down ds and his struggles at school during the last 6 months. I have been advised to 'push' for assemssment and make a parental request for statement. We havent really started the process yet and I am utterly fed up with it all tbh. Im not keen for my son to be continually assessed as if he has a problem. He has aspergers which means he has additional needs, which the school are currently overlooking - hence his misery.

Friend was insistent I shouldnt give up, should push for statement which would mean miraculous change in ds who would then be happy at school etc.

DS is fairly convinced that nothing much could be done to make school a happy place, he is keen on HE......

Friend was absoulutely 100% negative about HE (though tbh I dont think she knows much about it!) and was insistent that without school a child wont be able to socialise in the way they should, will be a failure in life, denied rights of a child, blah blah blah

Obviously most of you (if not all!) who HE will be biased in another direction but I would really value your opinions - and constructive arguments that I can chuck back at her next time I see her!!!

She is a lovely woman and means well but.....

HELP

TIA

so how does a HE child learn how to fit in and socialise in an enviroment with lots of people and a routine?
like a workplace?

why are they overlooking the aspergers?

how old is he?

isn't he just keen cause he thinks it will be a holiday?

Same old flimsy argument about socialisation. There are HE groups, there are after school clubs and weekend activities that do not preclude children because of where/how they are educated.

anyhow, how much is he capitalising on the social aspects of school if he's unhappy there?

Also, think about it in terms of what the particular school environment offers in terms of social skills - a group of same age kids who only mix with other age groups in a limited way through playtimes twice maybe 3 times a day. Where do you see that set up repeated in later life. A home educated child will have more opportunities to mix with babies, adults, peer group and the elderly on a regular basis if given lots of opportunities. Far more valuable imo.

I think that if you decide to HE, it must be your decision, based on a conviction that HE will be best for your son. As you say, your friend probably doesn't know much about HE, and your son may be keen on the idea for negative rather than positive reasons. Have you spoken to any home edders in a similar situation to yours?

PS agree with everything hobbgoblin says in her post.

Hi Trinity, 4 questions!!!

1 - Im hoping those already HEing their kids can answer that one for me!

2 - School would claim they are not overlooking ds aspergers, but they continue to do essentially force him to do things that he finds very distressing - wearing his sweatshirt when he doesnt want to!

3 - He is 7 in year 2, super bright in most academic subjects (proud mummy!) mostly hopeless at things like fine/gross motor control, some aspects of social skills, voice control (shouts and talks constantly!)

4 - absolutely not, he is bored senseless at school because he wants to learn far more, which he does when he is at home, at the level he wants to learn at. He also finds being in a room with lots of other children and noise very distracting and difficult to cope with.

Hobbgoblin - I heart your post!! Is there a website/blog link with an even more marvellous and detailed 'essay' along those lines

I have read sooooo much about HE on the web, a few books etc. I know the issues, feel able to take the challenge (I need to learn to drive but that is in hand)

But I am super dooper worried about reaction of family and friends. I know I shouldnt be - welfare of my son is most important (dd is also showing possible signs of SEN too) But my self esteem is so low, reaction of other people really affects me My mother will almost literally explode!

The thought of months of wrangling and assessments for my wonderful son who loves to learn and is happy to do so from dawn til dusk. Who is happy to socialise but doesnt want to be boxed in at school - makes my heart weep tbh.

Sorry to drone on, its nice to have a place to try and express all this

Have you read any John Holt yurtgirl?

He will give you all the ammunition you need

No I havent, I will thanks for reccomendation!

DS is a budding scientist. If at secondary school he would no doubt choose triple science - more ammunition for people to say I would ruin his life by HEing him.

Recent research by me suggests that triple science is an option at home for a motivated pupil so that argument is bunkum aswell

He's likely to do far better at home academically - it's always the socialization argument that gets trotted out by anti-HE people.

I recommend any of John Holt's books, but his classics How Children Fail and How Children Learn would be a good place to start.

Thanks, hope I have helped redressed the balance a little teeny bit!

I HE in the past but all DC now in school as I am a lone parent these days and not able to commit to it like I had previously, sadly. I take the best and add what I can to what they receive in school.

I was going to suggest Holt but already been suggested! The Education Otherwise gang are good to get to know.

Oh, and if you like camping, try and get to HESFES!

I agree with everything hobbgoblin and molesworth have said - definitely read some John Holt.

I took my ds out of school when he was nearly 7 on the basis that at that age I could give us the opportunity to try HE without it being too detrimental to his academic future. He is still HE, now age nearly 15, but goes fulltime to an online school and is studying for iGCSEs.

People thought we were very strange when we started out but the concept of HE is a bit more acceptable now I think and there are lots of options and support available. You might be surprised by people's responses - I thought my family would be very anti but in fact they were incredibly supportive.

The first steps of making the decision and leaving school are very scary I know. Try and find a local HE group and go and meet some of the parents there - it gave me the courage to do it, especially as there were a couple of teachers at my group, one of whom, was a former Head Teacher.

I don't see any reason why HE has to be a problem as far as socialisation goes. If you think about schooled children, yes they get chances to mix in school, and work together in teams, and learn to get along with people of different backgrounds, and I do agree that those things are important. Obviously I'm talking about what socialisation in school ought to be like, and not what it can turn out like for some children and/or some schools.

But parents of schooled children also get their children involved in lots of activities outside of school to give their children more opportunities to socialise - brownies, cubs, sports clubs, music groups, all the "after-school" and "weekend" activities. Plus playdates, and playing out, etc. So, I don't think most parents of schooled children think that school is the only source of socialisation for their children - they go out of their way to add other opportunities onto what school provides.

An HE parent can do all of those things, plus join in with HE groups, so there's no reason an HE child would miss out. The difference is that you can't assume that, if you don't add on the other things, school will still be there to give them some of it - you do have to think about what opportunities your child has, and make sure that they get those opportunities to learn social skills. But that's no different from making sure they have opportunities suitable to them so they can learn numeracy skills, or literacy, or anything else. You have to think about the things they need to get to grips with, and make sure the opportunities are there.

sounds like HE would be the best way to me

He'd be able to follow his own path rather than the school system trying to square peg him in a round hole. As for socialising- did you see big brother with that south african raised lady who had been HE'd all her life? She was self confident and able to be herself even with the oddballs she was in with. If my children can hold their own like that and so totally believe in themselves then I'll be proud!
Socialising in school isnt real socialising. It's herding. True socialising is choosing who one spends time with when one chooses to not being forced into situations that make one uncomfortable.
I read an interesting counter argument to the school being necessary to socialising- school is not a social club it is a place of learning. I stand by this.
On the subject of familys opinions? The first time we started HE (due to serious bullying in reception class) my parents didn't agree and I was a little, shall we say, outcast. The older girls went back into a school (their choice) and when they decided to remove themselves a year later because of poor teaching and other school related things(their opinion not mine, I thought it was a lovely village school but it wasnt me going was it?) my parents stood by them (and us) and now take an active role in their HE. To be honest other peoples opinions shouldn't impact on your decision to HE your son if it is what would be best for him at this time. nothing says he cannot choose to return to school at a later date.
good luck though.
Sorry if I ramble, it's been a looooong day.

I started HE'ding my 5.5 yo in September and was terrified. Convinced socialisation would be terrible problem. Really the problem has been finding a balance between all the different HE groups we could go to, meeting up with individual HE families, seeing 'school friends' after 3.30pm, doing after-school activities and still finding a bit of time to hang out at home and do lego, read books etc. There are lots of opportunities for 'shared learning' which I was also worried DS would miss out on. We meet up with a few families locally for a science club once a week, another family for crafty type things and there are lots of workshop/museum visits arranged. DS has had, I'm pretty sure, a lot more experience of science than his schooled peers, just from having more time to read books and do experiments, watch TV and also do things like go to the marvellous free Royal Institute lectures.
My MIL was (understandably as she had no experience or knowledge of HE) v apprehensive about it (although was v tactful about this with me). I have other friends who just think I'm mad. I think they can see that DS really isn't locked up in solitary and is bouncing around meeting lots of new people and going new places.
It's true that one of the great things is that the children can be friends with children years older or younger than them. Most of DS's close HE friends are about 2 years older than him and I think it's helped him grow in confidence. But he also mixes happily with younger children.
Your son will have so much more 'real life' experience if he's home educated. HE children gets loads of chances to interact with adults and children of all ages. The experience they miss out on is learning how to fit into a class of 30 children, so that they don't cause too many problems. I got really good at this, but I can't think how it's benefitted me in adult life, in fact I think it's really held me back.
Good luck, the scariest thing is definitely making the decision and just beginning.

Yurtgirl, I may have asked you this before, so sorry if I've forgotten. Where, roughly, are you living atm?

I only ask because, if you're near me I'd be happy to give you loads of info on local groups.

If you join Education Otherwise (about £20 a year) they'll send you a regular newsletter and a list of local HE groups/contacts in your area.

As far as the old "social life" crap goes. These are some of the things my 2 dc have enjoyed this year so far with loads of other HE kids.

Climbing, sailing, kayaking, horseriding, swimming, Science and Maths (shared tutor with 6/7 other families and so very cheap) Sports Day (yep, really) free cinema visits,
museum visits, Chessington, Legoland, pottery, candlemaking, picnics (there's a yearly Beach Day with tons of families from everywhere)! Rollerblading club, drama, French (one of the Mums teaches it)...I could go on but you get the idea.

This all sounds expensive but really it's not. We get discounts and freebies as we are classed as a "school" on some outings and so qualify for the same prices.

Honestly, if you're on the internet, you could fill every day of the week with other HE families. We like to have quiet days too, but that's the beauty of it. You are about as free as you can be in this country .

Social life at school??? When? For a few minutes in the playground...poppycock.

Well I've never been to school in my life, and I'm a working professional actor - a job where you need to be self confident and socialised to survive. The whole HE/socialisation argument is a pile of pants - there is no reason for HE children to be isolated unless they are deliberately kept at home all day every day.

well I'm not a HE'er (and never will be) but I don't buy the socialisation thing. Surely HE children do activities out side of their "school" time just as any other child would?

Teenytinytoria- do you feel you missed out on anything by not going to regular school? Did you ever question the decision to not go and do you regret it at all? If you could go back and change anything would you and if so what?
sorry for the nosy questions.

We don't actually know any other HE families here but that is personal choice of the children at the moment. Their friends do go to regular school. I'd like for them to meet up with others but when it's their choice not mine. We're mainly autonomous when it comes to HE, except that I set an hour a day when they have to do some form of dated written work to keep the LEA bod happy.

nappyelite...you do know you don't have to provide work for your LA don't you? They are telling you porkies if they are insisting on it

Winetimeisfinetime - That is sort of what I was hoping to say to my mum, "we are going to try it for now and see how it goes!" DS though is unlikely to reconsider school again once/if he is out of it!

May I ask which internet school your ds is enrolled in? - Reccomendations are really helpful for future reference!

MuminScotland - You make good points there, ds isnt keen on after school activities after school (too much for him) But after school activities having not been at school would be perfect!
Also having not seen my kids all day during term time I find the idea of sending them off to activities where again I may be cut out of things!

Trinity and FAQ - I am chuffed that you are positive re my dilemma even though you yourself perhaps are not keen on HE

Nsppyelite - do you remember where you read the counter argument to school socialising article?

I am expecting to the outcast experience too - from certain friends and acquaintances in particular

Lily - Your post as a relative newbie is helpful, thanks

Kaytee - Im in South Wales. That list of activities your kids have been involved in is great, I may steal that paragraph as part of my thesis for my mum if I may

Tiny I also wanted to ask the Qs nappy asked!

Having said all that ds has been arghhhh all day today - Easter, time off school, train trip to London to visit family

He said to me earlier "I cant help it mum, Im sooooo excited!" Bless

Hi Yurtgirl,

There is quite a large group of South wales HE people. We have a yahoo group and meet often, groups happen most days in different areas of South Wales. Can try to do link to website if that helps.
Good luck

Pookster - I think I know what you mean but a link would be easier, thankyou!

I have recently signed up to the HE Special email list and am somewhat regretting it! 30 messages a day from I have no idea who! Mostly irrelavant to me.

I think I need something more local, or specific to HE kids with Aspergers

Hi Yurtgirl,

found link for you (you may have to cut and paste) I am sorry I don't know any specific groups for kids with Aspergers.
I know what you mean about lots of messages! but some email groups allow you to just get a digest of the days messages (not sure how you do that, but think there is an option on your set up.

Hope that helps

swhomeeducation.googlepages.com/