Newbie here, need advice, year 10 daughter and possibly home education

[Icantpeopleanymore]

This might be long, sorry, I'm just hoping to arrange my thoughts and get some advice.

DD is 14, in year 10. Hasn't been able to attend her girls grammar since September.

She's autistic and really really struggles with new people, busy places, fatigue from masking etc. school is really hard for her, she's very bright but can't manage all the other stuff. Also potentially has EDS and gets very, very tired. School tried a few things but nothing consistently and she doesn't trust adults so it was so hard to get her to engage with anything they offered.

She's had very sporadic attendance throughout secondary and with the help of close friends was improving a bit in year 9.

However, her and friends fell out, they don't speak anymore. She stopped attending altogether.

She's still on roll, EHCPNA is in progress, school have offered a medical needs school, but it's mainly aim is to get her back to the home school, which she can't do. It's not right for her.

So, after trying in vain to find out why she can't attend (she's situational mute and can't identify emotions or feelings at all) I finally got from her that she can't go back and she wants to be home educated

However...I think she's in burnout. Currently I can't get her to much of anything at all. She wouldn't attend groups, at least not right now.

I work 4 days a week as a teacher and I'm a single parent. I can possibly drop my hours until September to 3.5 days, she goes to my mum's for two days, they do baking, crafts etc.

She's been doing school work independently currently and I've put in a section 19 request, going to argue with the LA for a tuition programme of some kind, but might not get it.

I feel like she needs a few months of no pressure, crafts, baking, bit of maybe English work and some maths, but essentially let her recover and then try to get her to engage with groups etc.

She'd be alone at home for 1.5 days a week, but actually she really enjoys this and I trust her. From September I might be able to drop to 3 days in work until she's 16.

I've seen the difference in her in just a couple of months since I stopped forcing her to try to go in, but I'm worried about so many things, that I'll burn out with the stress of trying to manage getting her to do some work, along with managing my job, or that she'll just do nothing and it'll end up with her getting no qualifications at all, or that this won't help and I'll have made a mistake. I'm worried about her becoming isolated too, she has only one friend and barely sees her. I know she'd just want to stay at home at first. We have a good relationship but she still doesn't trust me that I'm not going to o force her into school yet. I've told her I'm researching and thinking about it and that we will talk over Christmas about what it might look like.

I feel like it's the right decision for her and us as a family (she has a younger brother, 9, happy enough in school but possibly also autistic and I don't know if he will eventually have the same issues).

I guess I'm a bit institutionalised myself, been teaching 22 years and I never thought we might be going down this route! I also like routine and things to be planned, so I'm trying to resist that urge!

I do need to talk to her dad, he sees her once a week but he's moving away soon, over an hour, and then will only do every other weekend. His girlfriend is a maths teacher though, so there's possibly support there. He's a bit of a robot though and if I just present him with a plan he'll go with it, he has very little to do with the kids day to day.

Any thoughts (even, are you mental?! No way would this work!) welcome...

Provision under section 19 of the Education Act 1996 doesn’t have to be about reintegration to the home school. Even if that is what typically happens, reintegration to school, and especially the home school, doesn’t happen all the time and isn’t a legal requirement.

The LA has a duty to ensure DD still receives a suitable full-time education. If the LA refuse, ignore you or delay, you can force them to act, via judicial review if necessary.

If/when you have an EHCP, EOTAS is possible.

Personally, I wouldn’t EHE. An EHCP can provide far more support, including therapies, than the vast majority of parents can afford to fund themselves.

Thanks, that's good to know. They certainly all seem to be geared towards that.
It's just that everything is taking so long and she's having good days but then terrible ones every time she gets work on Google classroom or when the school say they're going to visit.

I just need them to give her time to recover and then I'd definitely be pushing for eotas, if we get the EHCP. It could take months though, I've heard up to 20 months for my county.

She doesn't have that long, we have 18 months till year 11 is done.

Whilst section 19 is good in theory, in practice, I put in the request a month ago, they sent it back to school and said it was their responsibility, they gave us forms for a medical needs school, she can't face it. She is adamant she won't go.

I've pushed for a meeting with LA and school, had nothing back now even though they agreed, 2 weeks ago.

My thoughts are to just try to be a barrier between her and school as much as possible, which isn't hard because they can't be bothered and she won't leave her room if someone is here anyway, and just to try waiting to see if I can get anything from the LA. If not then push for EHCP and eotas.

In the meantime, take the pressure off school work and consider HE.

I just don't know how difficult it would be to get an EHCP if she's not registered with a school?

The ultimate duty lies with the LA. They know that. It is a delaying tactic. Email the Director of Children’s Services reminding them of their duty and threatening judicial review if they do not comply. If that doesn’t work, you need a pre-action letter. SOSSEN can help with this free of charge. However, there is a wait, so you may want to look elsewhere. If this fails, you judicial review proceedings will resolve the matter.

Section 19 provision doesn’t have to be provided via a set provider. It has to be suitable. If the LA’s typical offer isn’t suitable, they must provide something that is. If their offer isn’t suitable, the above process can also be used to force them to provider something else.

The EHCP process is governed by statutory timescales. If you don’t have to appeal, which I appreciate many do, the process takes 20 weeks. LAs often think this doesn’t apply to them. It does and can be enforced if the LA breach the timescales. You do not have to wait 20 months.

Many have to appeal for a good EOTAS package. If you have to, you can request an expedited hearing on the basis DD is out of education.

Remember, an EHCP can last until 25, or 26 in some cases, if DD can’t sit GCSEs in Y11, it isn’t the end of the world. Mental health has to be the priority. GCSEs can always come later. An EOTAS package can be about therapeutic provision rather than academics if that is needed. Section 19 provision can also be about therapeutic provision.

Personally, I wouldn’t deregister even if DD can’t attend. If you do that, the LA has no incentive to assess, issue or agree a comprehensive EOTAS package. They know if they refuse you are likely to continue EHE. And those parents EHEing are less likely to pursue an appeal.

We home edded and know a number of people in your position who had to take their ASC children out of school around age 13 or 14. If you’re chilled about the timing of GCSEs and do decide to home ed then it takes the pressure off. If you want to do GCSEs you could plan to start them next September so take them a year late. I know people who have got EOTAS packages and EHCPs while out of school if you can face the battle.
I think your idea of her spending time with your mum/reducing your hours and her having some time by herself sounds fine. Also the idea of trying to build up her confidence to attend home ed groups in the future.
There are quite a few live or recorded video lessons she could join in for home ed kids. My sons did some nice art/English/philosophy/history ones. Very low pressure. I can send some ideas if you'd like. They might be a useful resource for when she's at home by herself.

Thank you that's really helpful.
I guess putting up with school for now is a good idea then.

I still want to take the pressure off her.

Weirdly, the education isn't the issue, she can do that and can talk about work fairly openly. It's the idea of anyone asking her about feelings or emotions that's the issue, she shuts down, or gets angry, we get nothing from her.
The only thing she's finally said is she can't go back and wants to work at home.

@Pottingup thank you, that would be really useful.
She can't do tutors or live lessons, she hates 'being seen' I honestly think she might have PDA too.

I think it's the fight I know I'll have, it's already taking its toll. I'm not a quitter normally but it's been 4 years of trying to get her help for various things, eating disorder, self harm, violent aggressive behaviour towards me, CAMHs, early help, school....and my fight is gone. Maybe I'll get it back, I don't know.
She's bright and so intelligent, but she's got no confidence. I've no idea what an eotas package for her might look like.

EOTAS packages are completely bespoke to the individual’s needs. They can be whatever is required. It can help to break it down into different elements.

For example:

• Therapies - SALT, physio and OT (including sensory OT). MH therapies - e.g. art therapy, animal assisted therapy (there are some companies who come to the house if DD is unable to leave).
• Exercise - this could be equipment or subscription at home if DD can’t engage out of the house or with others at home. This could then move on to e.g. a personal trainer at home or swimming/hydrotherapy or horse riding as DD’s mental health improves.
• Music lessons
• Tuition - if DD can’t manage F2F or online tuition or schooling, would she be able to manage recorded lessons/schooling? Or tuition that is less academic e.g. maybe a textiles tutor if she enjoys crafting or a cookery teacher?
• Mentoring - including preparation for adulthood. If DD likes gaming, you could look at Mindjam.
• Equipment - sensory equipment, desk and chairs. Tech, software, assistive tech, headphone, printer (and ink subscription),
• Resources - paper, art supplies, anything else needed for the tuition or mentoring, a budget for cooking/baking ingredients…
• Memberships/subscriptions - this can include things like magazine subscriptions, Spectrum Space boxes (which are tailored to individual needs), Hello Fresh boxes, book subscription boxes, subscription boxes from Always Knitting, MEL science box…
• Professional time - TA/HLTA/LSA to facilitate the package. A lead professional to co-ordinate and oversee the package. Time for professionals to plan, write reports, attend meetings, update assessments, prepare for and attend annual reviews, send a summary communication post sessions, EP input…

As DD’s mental health improves and she feels more comfortable leaving the house, you might want to look at an AP. For example, a care farm or an arts group or a gaming AP.

The possibilities are endless.

@BrightYellowTrain thank you so much for taking the time to post all of that. It could be amazing. Currently I've tried a few things but because of the cost and then her refusing to go back after one session, I've had to stop.
Definitely possibilities within all that.

And I guess most of it cheaper than a special needs school.

I wonder why it's such a battle for people to get a package like this?

She does need time, first of all. I'll keep fighting her corner, when I have the energy. I know where I am, Kent, they're notorious for delaying the EHCP process. I guess first things first is to push for section 19, I've found a tutoring company who I know have been commissioned by KCC in the past, education boutique, who offer bespoke packages and are well versed in PDA and autism.

I hopefully will get this meeting soon and can tell them that's what she needs. It could take months for her to engage but it's finding the right fit I guess. She just doesn't trust anyone right now.

LAs don’t like EOTAS because it can be costly and more work. Many also think they have less control.

cheaper than a special needs school.

A good, comprehensive EOTAS package will not be cheaper than SS. In fact, a good package will be more expensive than many SS.

Despite what KCC will tell you, they are no stranger to EOTAS. They have some DC with large packages.

You don’t have to accept the, breaching timescales. You can then pursue enforcement action.

Ahh well then the cost will be the thing, they're broke!

Do you mind me asking, is this all from personal experience or do you support in the area professionally?

I feel like I'm pretty clued up but I'm having to learn all the time, it's exhausting!

Hi @Icantpeopleanymore

I'm sorry this is happening to your dd and you.

I’m an ex teacher now home educating parent and my opinion is your dd sounds burnt out and needs time to ‘deschool’. I would allow her the time to bake and craft, to rest and read. Don’t force her to do any ‘work’. She needs time to recover from the stress of everything. If you have any specific HE questions I can answer them. I have no experience of eotas but I do have a child who had an ehcp when In school and ‘lost’ it upon deregistration and I personally didn’t want to fight for it as I wanted to cut my ties to the school and the authorities. It’s easier as you can pour all your energy into your child instead of having to constantly fight for things which as you know is exhausting 😔

Both. I have 2 DSs with EOTAS packages. Well, one has EOTAS and one EOTIS. They amount to the same thing, just a change in judiciary thinking. I have also supported/support other parents to secure EHCPs, including supporting them to get EOTAS/EOTIS packages.

but I do have a child who had an ehcp when In school and ‘lost’ it upon deregistration

Your LA acted unlawfully. An EHCP does not cease on deregistration even if you EHE. If you EHE, the EHCP is still maintained but the LA does not legally have to provide the provision in F.

If you can make it work, I would say home education is very much the right thing for your daughter. Do what you say you are doing. My dad was an SEN advisor and often ended up working with families doing very much what you are doing. What he would mostly look for was the child interacting with different people (like your mum), and having a range of experiences (which your child is). Obviously if you can get other help do, but don't feel pressured to send your daughter back to school.

Interesting. Thanks for the clarification. We didn’t pursue it as in part it was irrelevant for her at home and in part as we wanted as little interference as possible from the state as we have taken an unschooling approach to HE.

Question though, if she ever goes back into an educational institution such as college where her physical needs become relevant again, do you know what the process is for us?

@benefitstaxcredithelp if the EHCP was formally ceased, you/DD would need to request an EHCNA.

If it was not formally ceased and is still maintained by the LA, you wouldn’t need to request an EHCNA. The EHCP could be amended via the review process. ARs should still be held even if you are EHEing.

For the benefit of anyone reading who does want to pursue EOTAS rather than EHE, EOTAS packages can basically look like EHE unschooling but funded.

Where in Kent are you? If anywhere over in the West, take a look at The View in Tonbridge - very small setting aimed at supporting students to try to prevent losing them from education all together. PM me if it might be helpful.

@balloonsintrees I'm in Maidstone. I did look at the viewpoint, looked amazing...I just can't see her trying anything out of the house at the moment, she says no to everything, the only thing I've got her to agree to try is home education. I wish it were different but she just isn't there yet. Thank you though.

@BrightYellowTrain thank you

@stichguru thank you.still thinking about it, given myself until Christmas to make a decision, by then hopefully I will know more about the LA offer (although not holding my breath) and I can make a more informed choice. Plus also see how DD is doing without the pressure of school, I can deal with them without involving her, apart from the safeguarding visits which I'll push back on as much as I can. I can hold the stress so she can let go.

I couldn't get her to go back if I tried, the last time I physically tried to get her in she fought me and I'm not willing to go through that again, for her or for me.

@BrightYellowTrain
Thank you for all your knowledge, really helpful. I might have to sound you out again soon if that's ok?

I've just realised how much she's on high alert, I just went into her room to turn out her light, put her duvet over her as she'd kicked it off, she sat bolt upright and shouted, she's obviously sleeping very lightly, unlike her as she sleeps like the dead usually, I guess if you're just in fight mode all the time it's hard to relax properly enough to sleep deeply.

Thanks to everyone who has replied, I guess nothing has to be decided now, it's good to know we have options.

You seem to have a very clear vision of what your daughter needs right now, and it's something you can give her. That's a brilliant start. Hold onto that. Keep your eye on her first and foremost.

From all your experience of the school system as a parent and as a teacher, you may be inclined to look outward at what is available and then try to work out whether she could slot into this or that. Do it the other way round. Think outside the box. What would be the absolutely ideal approach for your daughter? There's usually a way. Other home ed parents will have lots of ideas to share with you if you tell them what you're looking for.

Over time, you can assemble together the separate elements of an education: social, emotional, academic, vocational, physical. There's no hurry. You can tinker with it as you figure your daughter out and as she develops. At school, there's a great urgency to get kids to achieve certain things by the end of Y11. The school has to prove their "added value" before the child leaves. And if the child could do with an extra six months or year before sitting GCSEs, for example, that isn't an option. Home ed is different. While your legal obligation to educate your child ceases at the end of Y11, in practical terms that's an arbitrary age. My 18 year old has a learning disability and is still being home educated, because that's what she needs and she isn't done yet!

If you think your daughter may have PDA, then trying to get her to "do work" may backfire. I don't have experience of this as a parent, but several of my kids' friends and their friends' siblings who have PDA have done well with a completely unpressured home ed approach. Having been exposed to various people and ideas for years, all of these teens eventually worked out what they wanted and how to get it, and have been focused on achieving their goals.

Mind you, the parents all got plenty of grey hairs along the way, worrying that their children would just be sat on the sofa gaming at the age of 30. But any attempts to hurry the process along had the opposite effect.

Firstly, her health needs to come first. If you think she's on the edge of burnout, take all pressure off now. Recovery from burnout can take months, there's no rushing it. The day I told my daughter that I was not sending her back to secondary school, she visibly relaxed and it was only then, 4 months into burnout and non attendance, that the recovery started. Because before that, everything had been focused on getting her back and her nervous system was in constant high alert. She couldn't eat or sleep, was crying and genuinely scared of school.

Secondly, I had this with DD, same timing. She ended up with no education year 10 or 11 (we were offered section 19, it was awful and made her worse). Is now at a specialist 1-2-1 centre that is perfect, with EHCP, studying for 5 GCSEs as we're squishing into 1 year. Don't try to force her daughter into doing 9/10 GCSEs by the end of year 11 - if she gets an EHCP, you've got extra time for free education anyway, so slow things down and don't panic. The path you know is probably not the right one for your child but there are other paths and when you find the right one, it'll be so much better for her.

If you think you could home educate, look into online schools like King's - this was my fallback option if the EHCP didn't happen in time. You could take all pressure off in year 10, focus on recovery, therapy and social stuff. Then 5 GCSEs in year 11 and another 5 if she wanted in year 12.

Look on your Local Offer to see what alternative education is available, that's how I found the centre my daughter's at now. And how I found charities that have support as well.

To add - Naomi Fisher's workshop "burnt out by school" is excellent and really helps explain why removing the pressure to attend school is the right thing to do.

Thank you @WhatsitWiggle I've paid for that webinar.

She's also got a book for teens, not sure mine would entertain it yet, she's very against anything being actually wrong with her..

Not wrong as such, it's all totally understandable of course. I've got her other book, a different way to learn.

My son was up awake at 4am, he doesn't sleep well, so I decided to let him sleep today. Always worse in the run up to Xmas, so much going on, he's always struggled with sleep but he's 9 now and it's getting so difficult.

So we are all at home, I've set cover, feel bad for not being there but they'll survive without me for one day. Think I need it too.

And thank you for the advice and info about your experience, it does reassure me.