Newbie here, need advice, year 10 daughter and possibly home education

[Icantpeopleanymore]

This might be long, sorry, I'm just hoping to arrange my thoughts and get some advice.

DD is 14, in year 10. Hasn't been able to attend her girls grammar since September.

She's autistic and really really struggles with new people, busy places, fatigue from masking etc. school is really hard for her, she's very bright but can't manage all the other stuff. Also potentially has EDS and gets very, very tired. School tried a few things but nothing consistently and she doesn't trust adults so it was so hard to get her to engage with anything they offered.

She's had very sporadic attendance throughout secondary and with the help of close friends was improving a bit in year 9.

However, her and friends fell out, they don't speak anymore. She stopped attending altogether.

She's still on roll, EHCPNA is in progress, school have offered a medical needs school, but it's mainly aim is to get her back to the home school, which she can't do. It's not right for her.

So, after trying in vain to find out why she can't attend (she's situational mute and can't identify emotions or feelings at all) I finally got from her that she can't go back and she wants to be home educated

However...I think she's in burnout. Currently I can't get her to much of anything at all. She wouldn't attend groups, at least not right now.

I work 4 days a week as a teacher and I'm a single parent. I can possibly drop my hours until September to 3.5 days, she goes to my mum's for two days, they do baking, crafts etc.

She's been doing school work independently currently and I've put in a section 19 request, going to argue with the LA for a tuition programme of some kind, but might not get it.

I feel like she needs a few months of no pressure, crafts, baking, bit of maybe English work and some maths, but essentially let her recover and then try to get her to engage with groups etc.

She'd be alone at home for 1.5 days a week, but actually she really enjoys this and I trust her. From September I might be able to drop to 3 days in work until she's 16.

I've seen the difference in her in just a couple of months since I stopped forcing her to try to go in, but I'm worried about so many things, that I'll burn out with the stress of trying to manage getting her to do some work, along with managing my job, or that she'll just do nothing and it'll end up with her getting no qualifications at all, or that this won't help and I'll have made a mistake. I'm worried about her becoming isolated too, she has only one friend and barely sees her. I know she'd just want to stay at home at first. We have a good relationship but she still doesn't trust me that I'm not going to o force her into school yet. I've told her I'm researching and thinking about it and that we will talk over Christmas about what it might look like.

I feel like it's the right decision for her and us as a family (she has a younger brother, 9, happy enough in school but possibly also autistic and I don't know if he will eventually have the same issues).

I guess I'm a bit institutionalised myself, been teaching 22 years and I never thought we might be going down this route! I also like routine and things to be planned, so I'm trying to resist that urge!

I do need to talk to her dad, he sees her once a week but he's moving away soon, over an hour, and then will only do every other weekend. His girlfriend is a maths teacher though, so there's possibly support there. He's a bit of a robot though and if I just present him with a plan he'll go with it, he has very little to do with the kids day to day.

Any thoughts (even, are you mental?! No way would this work!) welcome...

It's hard isn't!

My ds has autism and has been unable to attend school for a while due to servere anxiety, he's on anti depressants and on waiting list for camhs. Both of us are doing everything we can to get through this but unfortunately the school have been no help at all, if anything they are making the situation harder by asking how they can help (one example being him asking for work to do at him them saying they can't do that) and then saying they can't facilitate that. I applied for an ehc assessment which unfortunately a few days ago got refused.

Am I giving up on my son? No! Do both of us need a break from the extra added on pressure the school is giving us? Yes!

Take care of yourself too - easier said than done, I know but you need to factor in your own wellbeing. The fight is exhausting, so anything you can offload to her dad (I think I know the answer to that already!) or your mum.

The school visiting her at home - not necessary. Yes they need to safeguard but it does not need to be in person. Can literally be "eyes on" over Zoom. Or if they insist on coming to home, they stay on the doorstep, child comes out of room down the stairs so visible, then can retreat. Or if you have any social services support eg Early Help, then that covers the safeguarding requirements. You can speak with the safeguarding lead at school and explain current method is causing increased anxiety and making things worse.

West Sussex (where I am) also notorious for rejecting most EHCNA. We have a Facebook group and it's been so helpful, hopefully there's similar for Kent.

Does she have DLA? If not, apply. It's based on need, not diagnosis, and if she's in burnout, I'm guessing you are doing a lot for her, way more than a typical 14yo. And probably more even when she was at school if her executive functioning isn't great. Gives you some money for something like equine therapy.

PDA profile is likely to be exacerbated by the burnout and increased anxiety. Reduce questions and decisions eg "what do you want for breakfast?", just present the breakfast and walk away. Offer statements "Grandma was thinking about baking a chocolate cake today" and let her say if that's an activity she wants to do. Let her go out in pyjamas if getting dressed is too much (either effort or sensory) - lounge clothes appear to be acceptable teen outdoor wear these days anyway! It's very "hands off" parenting but what you want is to reduce any pressure, let her regain control. As you mention ED in the past, be vigilant to that rearing it's head again as a way of taking control.

@Icantpeopleanymore you are welcome to ask anything.

@CompletelyLost1 appeal the EHCNA refusal. The school doesn’t have to send work home. The duty to ensure DS still receives an education lies with the LA rather than the school.

@WhatsitWiggle thank you. Yes we get DLA, I can't believe about 6 months ago I was feeling guilty because I felt like she barely needed it anymore! Awarded till 16, so just the dreaded PIP assessment in 2026. I get universal credit too, which is great because I can afford to be part time but also worrying as I need to sell the marital home in 2027 and have to be able to buy a house straight away, or the universal credit will stop because of the equity, so I'm in a situation where I can't drop any more days or stop work altogether, as then I can't get a mortgage etc etc. So have to keep working to afford some kind of mortgage along with the equity or I'll just have to live off the equity. Which wouldn't last long!

Her dad is a bit clueless, leaves it all to me, but my boyfriend is great, we don't live together but speak every day and he really lets me talk.

I've watched the webinar and it really was helpful, I think we are sort of in the stage where she's starting to come out of it some days, but not every day, and keeps having pretty bad days. I've sent the link to her dad. Hopefully he'll watch it and take my point of view as he knows he doesn't understand her really.

I keep doubting it though as some days she's totally herself. More often than not though it can tip the other way and during the summer she was a different child, loving life. Maybe her not doing school and me not putting pressure on has kind of got there early enough for it not to be too bad?

I really don't know what to say to school, they've said no to early help visits being enough for safeguarding. I feel like if they do visit it's just going to cause her to retreat even more. I'm trying to get her to trust me when I say she's not going back, ever, unless she wants to.
They're not very proactive anyway, so if they do email to say they're visiting I'll just say it's not convenient. If I can delay them till Christmas then that'll help. Less than three weeks to go and the senco doesn't even work every day, so I doubt I'll hear much soon. They mentioned it last Tuesday and I've heard nothing so 🤷

I'm very low demand here, as is my mum, my dad not so much but he stays out of it. I sometimes wonder if because I've been doing that for a couple of years (since she started attacking me physically and having huge meltdowns) that it's just been such a stark contrast to school it's made it worse somehow. We use humour a lot and I've perfected the 'we are doing this thing, up to you if you want to, leaving in 30 mins' or texting her about things, which she can cope with.

I feel awful guilt for not fighting harder earlier, but she just seemed to need a day or something a week to have a duvet day and then she was springing out of bed ready for school with no issues. I think losing friendship and year 10 being such change and pressure just meant it was too much after the summer.

Still not heard anything about the LA providing anything, I've told DD to ignore school work and that I'm working in the background to get her out but that it'll take time, I'll just have to wait on the LA and if what they offer isn't right then she's not doing it.

Then just try to keep her on roll and bide my time for the EHCP but sort of home educate when she's ready I guess!

No idea if referral to CAMHS would be a good idea, I feel like just another professional or appointment would be too much. She has a private consultant appointment in London in a couple of weeks, for EDS. Hopefully if he writes a detailed report he can mention the fatigue and high incidence of anxiety that goes with EDS and that might be enough to keep them off our backs. A CAMHs referral would take months anyway, she was self harming and has suicidal thoughts at 10 and it took a year for an urgent appointment. Which was shite!

She had another referral from the eating disorder clinic as they decided she wasn't eating because she was anxious... even though I showed them screenshots of her counting calories, exercise regimes, looking up anorexia hashtags etc...they referred to CAMHS who sent me a list of links for kooth etc. bloody useless.

After that she started eating, now she's pretty good but she barely ate at school, didn't like the food, the noise, the busy canteen...now she's home there's much more control and I can judge by the mess in my kitchen she's eaten. She lives baking and is addicted to sugar so although it's not great, it's food and that's the main thing.

@BrightYellowTrain thank you, the EHCP process is just overwhelming right now. I can't even get them to give me a straight answer about the date the EHCPNA was submitted! I did my bit 7th November, but no idea how long it took school to do theirs.

It is a case of having to reiterate DD is being seen by other agencies and the safeguarding visits are not necessary and are causing DD distress.

Did you submit the EHCNA request to the LA or did the school? If the former, it will be from the 7th. If the latter, have you had any contact from the LA/are you certain the school has submitted a request?

If the LA agrees to assess, you can request the LA seeks advice and information from a clinical psychologist &/or a psychiatrist. This will then be subject to the EHCNA timescales.

I am in the progess of appealing it, as already said it is a very confusing minefield and I think it is like that in the hope parents will give up on it (but could be wong here) The school asked ds for suggestions that would make him feel more confident in attending, he took it upon himself to email the teachers and ask them for some work to do at home as he didn't want to fall behind too much, he got told he'd be sent some work for someone higher up to say they can't (I'd love to post the whole email we received here but for obvious reasons I won't). Another example is after still being severely anxious but managing to go in and asking if he can work in the quieter area, he was allowed to go but after I left quickly got taken out again and put in a classroom. DS simply and understandingly doesn't trust the school anymore that on top of his anxiety is making the barrier higher and higher for him to attend.

@CompletelyLost1 you can request an expedited hearing on the basis DS is out of education. It isn’t always agreed. It depends on the availability of court time but it is worth making the request. Alongside this, you can request alternative provision from the LA using IPSEA’s model letter.

@BrightYellowTrain I did it, spoke to the LA, harassed them and got a lovely lady on the phone who started it there and then, sent over the parent and child voice part, which I filled in a day or two later, so that's great news it's started even if the school drag their heels over filling in their bit.

To be honest they're probably doing that because they have not formally done enough, her provision plan hasn't been updated timely enough and they only offered part time timetable once she'd stopped attending at all...

Can they assess her if she won't speak to them at all? Or even if I can't get her to an appointment? I'll just try not to worry about that till it happens...

Bless her she ventured out of her room tonight to ask me to dye her hair a bright red non school uniform colour! I said I fully support this 😂 plus she's now washed her hair and had a shower at last. And tidied her room, well a bit. I mean I can sort of see the floor now. Any progress is something!

@CompletelyLost1 I'm so sorry that's happening to you your DS. They clearly don't understand he needs to be able to trust them. I'd be raging if they had done something like that as soon as I'd left, not acceptable at all.

My own school in contrast offer so much to our students, various therapies, we have three counsellors, part time timetables, different routes for the less academic, mentoring...so much. We still have students who don't attend, but it's maybe one in a year group.

Dds school are putting work on Google classroom that the whole class gets, which is fine, some really lovely teachers are putting on assignments just for her. She's doing most of it on a good day but a lot is just too difficult for her to manage as she obviously not getting the context or help.

I do wonder if having the work there is actually making her more anxious...she wants to engage with it but it must be hard, even though the content is easy enough for her.

This evening sounds like positive progress.

Assessments can still happen if DD can’t leave the house. They can do home visits or telephone/virtual assessments. If DD can manage it, home assessments would be preferable.

Assessments can also still be done if DC struggle to engage/are unable to engage. It isn’t an uncommon scenario. You will be surprised what a good HCP will be a pick up. Don’t worry about that now.

So the EHCNA timescales start from when the EHCNA request is submitted to the LA.

@BrightYellowTrain thank you.

So today I got a meeting set up with the LA SEN inclusion officer and the school with me, next Wednesday.

I think my main points will be:

DD is in burnout due to unmet needs. Her mental health is the main priority and she needs to have demands dropped for now, including their safeguarding visits..which they haven't done since October so it can't be all that important...

School have done all they can fuck all

Full time alternative provision school isn't going to be appropriate for her, because she won't go and pushing her to do so or even trying to introduce it as an idea is pushing her back into burnout.

Reintegration is into a form of education but unlikely to be her current school yet. or ever

I want a gradually increasing number of hours of tutoring/mentoring, starting with an hour or two a week, in maths and English. Someone she can connect with, face to face, trained in autism and PDA. Focus on building a relationship with her first and developing into helping her with work. With no pressure to see results immediately, it'll need to be when she can cope with it. I'm really hoping this will be after Christmas as she'll have had another month then with no pressure from me to complete work, but I just don't know.

Maybe some funded online lessons in other subjects that she wants to do, for her to access as and when she feels able, but not school setting work as that's causing more anxiety.

Possibly an online school, although I'm not sure she'd go for that yet either.

Basically she needs time to recover, the LA to do their job, then more time and EHCP to get her the right education eventually.

Wondering what I should have to hand as evidence? I don't have evidence of the anxiety apart from what they've seen, I could get hold of something on burnout, I know there are a couple of providers I could suggest could be best for her.

I appreciate I started this thread as I'm thinking about home education, but I just want to be sure I've exhausted all the avenues first I guess. I still feel that's where we will end up, just because of timescales and her not wanting to return, but at least if I can try I'll feel I've done everything I could.

I've had such great advice here so hoping for a little more!

I have replied to you elsewhere under another name about AP providers, but for section 19 provision, all you need to show is DD is unable to attend school and needs the LA to provide alternative education. The LA should not be demanding evidence, medical or otherwise, in a specific form.

For the EHCNA request, all you need to show is a) has or may have SEN, and b) may need special educational provision to be made via an EHCP. This is a relatively low bar and you should be able to collate evidence to show this already. To help you gather evidence think about making SARs to the school, GP and any other services/agencies/professionals involved.

Thank you so much, really helpful. It's got to be suitable, so if they suggest the medical needs school she won't go to I'll just push for something else.

As well as being suitable for DD’s age, aptitude, ability and SEN. It should offer a good quality education equivalent to that offered by MS as far as DD’s needs allow (i.e. it shouldn’t just be maths and English). It should consider DD’s pastoral, social and emotional needs. And as far as possible DD should be involved in decisions.

If you haven’t already, it is worth reading the government’s arranging education for children who cannot attend school because of health needs guidance and the alternative provision guidance.

@Icantpeopleanymore

Hopefully the meeting goes well.

The school's need to start to realise that mental health problems are not "easily solved" and that looking after mental health is important, a good education is important I agree with that but you can always try and resume education when your mental health has improved. That's what I've been telling ds anyway.

I got informed today that the school has involved the EWO, I think they thought it would scare me but it hasn't. I've got proof of everything that me and ds have tried (he's got more appointments next week), I've got emails, etc to show that we've done nothing but tried and tried.

Thanks @CompletelyLost1 I've been non stop thinking about it, discussed it with her dad so we are on the same page.

She's basically stopped doing school work now, but actually seems better for it, I'm going to ask that it's not school setting work but an alternative so she has time to recover.

We too have tried lots, I don't have 'evidence' of her anxiety though, but we are seeing a private consultant on Thursday for her hyper mobility, there's lots of links and research about links to anxiety with that so I'm hoping he will mention that in his report to back us up. Otherwise I have nothing as the GP wouldn't write anything.

I have a window into the mental health stuff at my school and we do so much, but DDs school just seem to stick to the line of 'get in school, we will help then'...just so unhelpful!

I'll see if they back down once the LA are involved, if there were questions about what they've tried then they really can't answer that!

I'm not even sure what I'm going to get from the LA, I can't see her engaging with anything, but it's got to be worth a try to get her something and have more of a separation from school as the links with them are not helpful and she's certainly not learning anything by doing homework from the online classroom.

What are DD’s interests? Or what were her interests if she has dropped interests since becoming so anxious? You could focus provision (even if it isn’t direct provision) on this and therapeutic input. This often provides the initial way in.

Thanks @BrightYellowTrain yes was thinking that. She loves dogs, we can't have one because I'm too exhausted and have an elderly cat, so a therapy dog would be a hit, she loves crafts, crochet, guitar, musicals, baking, gaming, a bit...lots of things. Slowly picking them up again.

Thing is, even if she enjoys something, she blocks it. Too demandy...! Whoever comes to the house would probably end up talking to me for an hour for the first few weeks maybe months

I've got some good points to make now, thank you.

Whoever comes to the house would probably end up talking to me for an hour for the first few weeks maybe months

This really wouldn’t matter. It is how lots of s19 provison and EOTAS provision starts and sometimes continues that way for a very long time. Please don’t worry about this. However, provision doesn’t have to be anyone coming to the home, either at all or to begin with.

The interests you list open up a wide range of possible provision. A therapy dog or animal assisted therapy using dogs is possible. Some then move on to other animal related provison and some don’t. Crafts/baking, etc. lend themselves well to subscription services DD could pick up or put down whenever. There’s loads of gaming provision online too. Again, some DC add in F2F gaming APs, some don’t. But there never has to be demands to do any provision.

@Icantpeopleanymore

I hope Thursday goes well and hopefully they can give you some "evidence" to show the school.yous are getting help etc.

That's all I do think about it non stop. I can honestly say I have never ever felt as helpless as I do in this situation, I am stressed about it all, me and DS also discuss it at great length but there just isn't much else we can as what we already are. (Dad isn't around anymore...thankfully)

He has always been keen to learn so he still learns things but mainly things that he finds interesting which is fine by me.

He's had a conversation with camhs and we are waiting for the outcome of that . We haven't heard anything of the EWO yet but the school is coming to do another wellfare check tomorrow, at this point I don't even want to engage in another conversation with them as they just can't seem to understand that we are doing anything and everything we can do and the conversations I've had with them so far have been near enough the same script, if he doesn't start attending I'll bet fined, it's an important year, he is clever enough to get good grades, he needs to persevere and build up resilience.... We've heard it all.

I hate that word resilience! Bloody hate it!

I think if DDs school say anything about that I'll be asking them if, in a girls school, they are in the habit of teaching their girls to put up with things that make them feel unsafe, uncomfortable, sad, or are painful to them...do they want them to grow up compliant and saying yes to things just because they think they don't have the right to say no? Because to me that's a massive fucking safeguarding risk, right there!

I know what you mean about just thinking about it all the time, I've barely slept. I keep reciting conversations in my head that haven't even happened yet!

It's important to switch off, definitely. I am lucky in that my children's dad is able to take them fairly often.

I'm still trying to not constantly think about it though, haven't work that out yet!

I hate the word myself, know I keep saying it but we've tried everything and it's not at the point where we have to see how he gets on with his medication and any other further help he will hopefully get soon, I can't do anything else. It's hard for kids like your dd and my ds, but for a parent it just as hard if not at times even harder.

I've hardly slept, dreading the home visit. I feel like they are judging me so ended up cleaning etc. I don't even know what else I can tell them at this point...

@CompletelyLost1 I'm so sorry that wasn't directed at you! I just meant I don't like it when they use it to mean 'be compliant and do whatever is making you uncomfortable.

Had a good talk with sunshine support this morning, trying to get myself organised for this afternoon.

Just hope I don't get tongue tied or cough up a lung!

DD did agree to maybe appear on a video call as safeguarding so I'll put that to school. Better than them coming here and they might actually see her!

Don't worry know it wasn't meant at me! Hope the meeting is/has gone well! It's hard no to get tongue tied and keep your emotions in control isn't.

Well they came and seen DS today. Some unnecessary comments on their side....wish I had the guts to write absolutely everything down what has been said but it will be too outing and scared it will come back.on us somehow (I know maybe a bit far fetched but still) but hopefully they will leave us alone now for a few weeks. Again they kept mentioning the importance of exams and attending school, same old story. I reminded then again that his mental wellbeing is more important right now.

Ds also felt like they looked him up and down in a judgemental way, he asked me after it there was anything wrong with his clothes, there isn't. He was showered and dressed. Another time they made a comment about the costs of a item of clothing he was wearing (as in it being expensive) and last time the costs of the models ds has on display.

I am looking forward to it being the Christmas half term, just a few days not having to notify them daily he won't be in and knowing they won't show up unannounced to do another wellfare check is a much needed break from it all.

@Icantpeopleanymore @CompletelyLost1
the irony of their ‘safeguarding’ checks makes me laugh. When they can guarantee our children’s safety in school then they can judge on safety. Do you have to let them make these invasive unnecessary ‘checks’?