Dropping out of HE threads

[discoverlife]

Because I getting so fed up of having to repeat and defend myself to people who are so negative about the whole idea of HE they carry on arguments into the realms of autonomous versus structured just to be able to point the finger and say that you can't trust children to teach themselves and they don't HE themselves so don't have a bloody clue.
To those of you who want none of the argumentative discussions about HE please join Education Otherwise and join us on the forums.
All this argueing is likely to put real parents with real problems off even asking on Mumsnet.

its not argument. It is discussion. But if you are unhappy, then you know what is best for you.

Its not me I worry about, its all the parents out there who are put off asking questions because every single HE thread ends up with an argument.

Discoverlife, I really do understand your frustration with this.
I, for one, would be sorry to see you leave the HE threads although I can see why you would want to leave the insanity some of these threads become.

I assume it's the last thread (still runnign last time I looked that you are referring to). To be fair, the op did seem to be asking for all sorts of views.

All education threads get a lot of posers. We're all parents and therefore we're all interested in education.

Eek. Posters. Not posers. Now that one typo oculd get me into a lot of trouble.

urk. the EO forums are full of people bickering over the running of EO and....autonimous vs structured and what have you!!
Enough to put people off joining EO. I'm not renewing my membership this year because I'm fed up with it all and being censored on the forums.
There is an EO yahoo group that is much more useful or UK-Home-Ed group that is very helpful.

This may be useful for HEers and those thinking about it.
uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeeducatingmumsnetters/

I know some of you are on it already, but thought it helpful to post for those who don't know about it.

Yes it is difficult.
My passion is that accurate information about home education being a legal, viable option, including the fact that it doesn't have to be 'school at home', formal or difficult, should be out there, so that parents can make an informed choice about what is right for their family at that time.

I guess it is slightly easier for me, as my children are grown up pretty much and have done so much better than expected by the schools that they left.
We know literally hundreds of home educators in real life, with loads of them autonomously home educated teenagers, and the older ones I know are either at Uni or are doing well in their chosen fields and the younger ones are all doing some sorts of qualifications entirely of their own choice-some at FE college and some via the OU.
Talking to them about their lifeplans is exciting and interesting.

I know that autonomous home education has been hugely successful for my children but it was something I knew nothing about at all, back in the days when I knew nothing about home education and was frantically looking for another way for a son who didn't want his life anymore.
I was amazed when I kept meeting these children and found there was a different way of living and being-I went on a very steep learning curve I can tell you.
As I said somewhere else it was like being Alice stepping through a looking glass-and into a world I had not known existed.
It must be hugely difficult to see how this is possible when you haven't seen it for yourself.
I know it is still difficult for my mother to understand and explain it-and she is hugely proud of how well her grandchildren have done.

I totally understand your frustration discoverlife. Having looked into home edding for my kids (still haven't but may do) I was and still am constantly disappointed with the lack of understanding and the knee jerk judgements about socialisation and the like coming from people with no experience of home edding.

I can't even be bothered to post anymore, I read the threads but it' the same boring old arguments.

I agree with Julienoshoes that it is important the message is out there for everybody that HE exists and it's a legal viable option. Something I didn't know 3 years ago but wish I did.

I'm sticking to my Yahoo groups.

I think that lively discussion is interesting and healthy.

Personally, I am happy that there are debate threads - I do prefer it when the debates are clearly labelled, and the worried parents looking into the possibility of HE are allowed space to post and discuss the practicalities with experienced HErs on other threads. The worried parent can see from the debate threads that there are a wide range of viewpoints, and can read through them and consider how they feel about the various issues. But when they are asking advice about their own situation, there is a limit to how much people who have not HEd can add. That said, I have posted on school problem threads and said "did you know HE exists - you could perhaps consider it", so if school parents want to say "have you tried such-and-such approach with the school" I don't see that I could really object, unless they seemed to be trying to derail the general discussion.

I do think it's very important that there is an HE topic on Mumsnet, and experienced HErs contributing to the discussion, because this may well be the first a parent has heard of it - if they come onto MN to post about a school problem, and look around a little, they will soon find us here, and maybe we can start them off finding out about it, whether or not they decide it is the right choice for them. If we retreat into HE-only forums and groups, we will be far less visible to people who may really need to know it exists.

The long thread was hardly a fight- it was an interesting discussion. I for one enjoyed reading Bubble's link to the HE family (JulieNoshoes family perhaps??) as it made me realise why autonomous would never work for us and why it seems such an alien idea. Other people do not have our constraints though.

I found Seeker's contributions very interesting as well as she had been Home edded- always interesting to see an adult's view - from someone who experienced it as a child. And 100x's comments were very interesting as well. I'm quite interested in alternative schools in a nosey sort of way and it was interesting to hear her say almost the same as the person I knew who went to Bedales (and who was equally scathing).

It was a discussion on a thread asking for all sorts of views. Hardly an open attack on all home edders.

And I can say that ds1 cannot teach himself. And that is true. He can't. Something that I've seen on here before is that children teach themselves to speak so why not other stuff- we he hasn't taught himself to speak despite having almost 9 years to do it, so I reckon he might struggle with the other stuff too, And when I said that I was talking about my ds1 - not other children- although presumably there are other children like him. It is a fair comment about him and people like him.

As I said on the thread I considered home ed, I quite often recommend the paths are made for walking book for people who have children with SN struggling with school. I suppose my view was much the same as seekers, that there are some disadvantages as well.

But its an interesting discussion and I certainly leaned something about autonomous education last night.

What link to a HE family yurt1?
I missed that!
My family's story is 'out there' on the internet, but I didn't think anyone here had linked to it.

I had never posted on HE threads until that one which did present itself as an open forum.

I really do object to censorship.

If it is specific thread from people wanting advice about HE or for people to pool resources I keep off it, but if it is asking for opinions on HE I think it is much healthier to have a whole range of opinions rather than a clique of people all agreeing that HE is wonderful and school is dreadful.It is such a shame that it always seems to get aggressive.

Bubble ( I think) posted a link to it on the 'All opinions about HE' thread last night. You might have to scroll down a bit!

It was a report by someone who spent a week with a Home edding family. I wasn't sure whether it was yours or not.... Talked a lot about learning by conversation (which was when I realised why autonomous seems so unrealistic to me as conversations are hard to achieve in our house!)

Aha! Thank you yurt1
was it this one?

If so, I understand why there may be the confusion.
It will have been me who posted the link originally, as I think it explains things quite quickly. Also Dr Alan Thomas has been here to our home to spend a day with our children, whist researching his latest book, but this passage actually talk about the first time he met an autonomously home ed family-and that was long before our children left school.
I believe the children who were mentioned have all long since finished university and are well settled in their career paths.

yes, it was that one

I guess I find these threads slightly tiring because we always end up discussing school. Which isn't what I do. I don't just leave my kids to their own devices, either, we're not autonomous.

We're a lot less constrained by a school timetable, but we still follow a fairly formal approach. I kind of feel out of place on many UK HE settings because of being a religious HE parent, too - it appears to be much more of a minority motivation in the UK community.

I do defend the parents freedom to follow the law that says they must educate their children in whichever manner they feel appropriate, even though I wouldn't make many of those choices myself. And some people are just astonishly misinformed about what HE can or must entail.

But I'm less inclined to get involved much when the discussion is constantly about how great/not great school is (because it's irrelevant to me) or when the discussion is operating on the assumption that HE is autonomous by default (because ours isn't)

I've never thought all home ed was autonomous- the one parent I know home edding at the moment runs a structured programme (which ds3 takes part in). It's just the one bit of HE that I find myself being sceptical about- but that article by Alan Thomas has made me realise why.

discoverlife - I'm at risk of sounding horribly patronising here, so apologies in advance, but... I can't help feeling that a large part of the reason you find these threads so unpleasant is that you are still very raw from what you and your DS have been through with school recently. Your feelings are totally justified of course, but while they are so immediate it may be difficult for you to hear general criticism of HE without reacting to it on a very personal and emotional level.

I've not been HEing much longer than you have, but my reasons and experience of school are so different that I can just sigh at these debates and chip in the occasional comment without it getting to me. I'd hate you to feel you hav to give up on these threads completely, but if they are causing you a lot of unhappiness, then I can understand your reasons.

SueBaroo
I know that not all HE is autonomous-and hope you know that I respect your right to choose what is best for your family.

I guess I tend to shout out about autonomous education because it isn't 'school at home'/formal-and generally if most people can 'get' the idea that home education is a legal viable option, then they are certain that it must at least, be children sat at the kitchen table (and of course this is reinforced by the media, who always want that phoyo of children at table with books and mom hovering over)

I just want potential home educators to know the options.

It is my experience that there are as many ways of home educating, as there are families doing it!