katylyle tell us why you'd not HE your children please

[BeNimble]

my children are preschool yet though i'm serious about HE

Scummymummy said;
"That's my biggest problem with the idea of home education. I think that there is a huge danger of giving children the message that you believe that the mainstream world outside is inevitably big, bad and scary and the only place where ideas and people are safe and trustworthy is the tiny microcosm of the family."

And that is a huge misconception-but a very common one for none home educators to make-and probably one I would have made before we were forced into home education-which quickly became a lifestyle choice.

Home based educators do not keep their children locked up within the family home, safe and secure. Our children are out and about all of the time-they travel independently around the country visiting home ed peers and go to camps and gatherings without me. In fact two of them are away from home right now, staying with friends in different parts of the country.
For our children the confidence and independence that home educated young people have, is another big plus factor in the decision that they will home educate their own offspring.

Our eldest two chose to return to FE college. According to their tutors they fitted in really well academically and socially. They are "confident, bright and articulate"
The youngest is not yet old enough for FE college but as well as national HE camps and gatherings, is already also going away to residential school with her choir and touring with them afterwards. She is now an accomplished performer playing gigs with her band and regularly singing solo in front of hundreds of people at festivals and concerts nationally.

Our children, now aged 20,18 and nearly 15, do not have any problems with the rest of the mainstream world at all-just school, which they see can be legally and viably avoided, so they will!

My children are homeschooled and go to football camp, play several sports the the local rec, have dozens of friends in the neighborhood, and go to homeschool outing with other kids. Socializing is important for children.

Filly, there are children who are bullied at school (FWIW I was one of them). But most of the kids that I work with actually like school. Not every minute- few of us like every minute of a lots of stuff in life! But overall they like school. In an odd way they even like the not liking bits; having something to collectivly grump about.

I took my Upper Sixth to Starbucks for our last lesson together. Basically they sat and chatted and talked over 'old times' (at 18!). It was fantastic to see the genuine warmth and affection they had for the school and pleasure they had in shared experiences. And yes, these were sixth formers, but I have had a similar experience when we said 'bye' to the year 11s.

I work with between 150-200 kids each year. And I would say that most of them enjoy the experience.

"Home educated children emerge confident, bright and articulate" is possibly not just because of home education. IME most home educating parents are themselves confident, bright and articulate as they have to be to provide a wide and varied programme and also to fight the system while still being able to access external resources where appropriate.

I wouldn't take the children out of school as I know I don't have the ability or patience to provide a rounded education but would like to do part time school so can spend time on the things they are interested in rather than just doing it evenings, weekends and holidays when they are tired. This meets with more objection from the authorities than withdrawing completely

I think that a child can be all those wonderful thing whether they are homeschooled or go to public school

I suspect you are not going to get the unhappy tales of woe when you've just taken them out to Starbucks, MB

also MB 6th formers have on the whole chosen to be there - the ones who've had bad experiences are unlikely to be the high performing students I'm presuming you have (Sciences at A level being among the more academically demanding subjects). So they'd be more likely to have enjoyed school anyway.

oh god am absolutely not suggesting that lots of kids aren't bullied. And I do think that its a horrible experience. I do also know several teachers who seem to feel that kids who are bullied are somehow a bit crap, and need to be toughened up, but I don't think thats the norm.

Bullying does take place in HE circles, btw, incl among kids Hed from birth (IYKWIM) its not unique to schools. And when it happens, what seems to be the norm is for the bullied child to walk away...groups are poor at dealing with conflict between individuals generally, which is understanable given that they are basically parents meeting informally.

I think we might look at home education through rose tinted glasses sometimes too!

I genuinely think that my children do mix with a wide range of children at school. To be honest, if they only mixed with our neighbours and their friends from Scouts and clubs and things, they would think that the world was populated by white middle class children wearing Boden tee shirts eating wholemeal bread and hommous sandwiches and recoiling in horror at the sight of a fruit shoot. (Just like them!)

Juule - that is the school system often described by home educators and i don't recognise it. Tested to death. Hardly. Labelled a failure before the age of five. I've never seen it.

oh i have, years ago, when i volunteered in schools. Definately. In a number of schools.

NKF - you may not have seen it but I have and at least 3 of my children have felt a great deal of pressure from it. Example: In the early days of SATs my eldest felt no more pressure than an excited 'oh, we have tests this week'. The last round of SATs had PE suspended until after SATs to allow for more booster SATs classes, pages of SATs homework sent home, children upset because the teacher said they MUST do well, upset because of irritable teacher when child not grasping/remembering work already covered. I have never played up testing and was shocked at the intensity of preparation for these tests.
Okay maybe dealable with if just one year group and then it's done, but it's filtering down the years with the end of year tests (practice SATs). Homework gets marked indicating which sats level they would be working at.
I have always told my children not to worry about exams and just do their best. However, when they are in school all day and being told how much it matters, what I say seems to get over-ruled.
My then reception aged dd was convinced she would never read or write because she was behind in class. She got to the stage where she wouldn't attempt to read to anyone ("I can't do that"). After speaking to the class teacher and getting lots of sympathetic face-pulling I could see why my dd thought it wasn't possible, the teacher had doubts. She wasn't ticking the boxes on the teacher's chart and the fact she wasn't up there with the others was getting through to her and she was upset that she was letting people down. It has taken her almost two years to get her confidence back to volunteer to read a book to us. Whether we actually label children (and I've heard some talk around school) or not the children are quite capable of picking up the signs and labelling themselves if we are not careful.

Well it certainly happened to my children-maybe not by the age of 5 but certainly by the first lot of SATS.
And we were told in no uncertain terms that at 8 years old, dd2 was "a lovely little girl, but I am afraid she is simply below average intellingence".
Shocked the teachers and head teacher to the core when her dyslexia assessment said she had an IQ within the top 10% of the population and a reading age below the bottom 2%-they didn't want to believe it even then, but had to when the LA's own Ed Psych agreed and said she should have a Statement.

I haven't seen it and yet I'm more than willing to believe it happens. But home educators seem to think that because they've seen bad schools, that all schools are bad. That's the only point I'm making. Not that terrible things don't go on just that if you listened to many home educators, you'd believe it was the whole story. And I don't think it is.

NKF - it's not even a case of bad schools and good schools. Some of my children have gone through the same schools with a few problems but only what I would call run-of-the-mill stuff. Child easily bolstered up and returned to the fray

One has thoroughly enjoyed her time at school (although there was one short rough patch).

The problem, for me, is that when it does go wrong it can go wrong big-time and the schools seem to either go into bully the child and the parent mode or totally ignore there's a real issue and keep mollifying the parent who is then completely confused as reality doesn't match with what they are being told. At no point does anyone suggest that there is another way. Once you know there is another option then it feels as though you have been misled and kept in the dark.

That the child who couldn't sleep with worry/started wetting themselves again/pleaded not to go/ because of going to school has suffered unnecessarily.

A parent has a duty to ensure a suitable education for their child whether in school or not. If it's not happening in school then it is such a relief to know there is an alternative.

Once you feel that you weren't sharing in the whole picture with your own child then it's easy to lose some trust with the whole system. And then you start digging and finding out.....and boy can that turn up some stuff.

Juule - you've said nothing that I'd disagree with. I'm just observing that some home educators seem to convert their own personal experience into a generalised critique of schools.

well i don't see how that is unreasonable

most non-HErs do the same with their school experience.

Also bear in mind here that a LOT-like over 50%-of home educators are qualified teachers.

factor in every other HE'r who has had professional involvement in the school system, and i'd say its around 70% or more.

I didn't say it was unreasonable.

And I'd say the same of non home educators who did the same. Someone who talked as if anything other than an international school was bad education. I'd think they were making a generalisation that didn't stand up to scrutiny.

ah i think i understand your point better

HErs can be a bit evangelical, I find, and that can get my hackles up too.

I think, though, that once you've had your fingers burned you do what you can to protect your children from the fire.

You come to realise that schools are not benign although that's the front the show. They can be dangerous places and the authorities being insistent that that's where children should be can be terrifying for someone who KNOWS that it's a BAD thing for THEIR child.

And to continually be told that their child SHOULD be in school does nothing to make parents feel more amiable towards a system which doesn't seem to care about the individual.

Which is one reason why my children who want to come home will not be going to school any time soon.

There are though lots of reasons to HE, not just religion / bullying

I will be he'ing my ds3 for several months because it si teh only way I can rectify a situation where the LEA cannot rpovide an place appropriate to his SN n time for the school term start. It wasn't planned BUT I feel hugely optimistic about it, a lot of his program will be unique to his SN of course but I do plan to use formal teaching in my schedule too, I want to get him to a point where he can cope in a mainstream classroom if the opportunitya rises (it is undecided yet whether he will go to SN or MS school)

I would much prefer to cover thsi myself than to palce him in an unsuiitable palcement which may, as the LEA dmit, be withdrawn immediately any time in the first six months. As he si not yet 5 and so not a compulsory attnder, he will attend toddler group with my CM twice a week (I am at Uni 8 hours a week) and I think that will at least contiue to provisde some of the constant social input he needs.

Shrinking violet, as you can see in my post I had already recognised the fact that I was talking about sixth formers. But I also said that I have seen the same warmth recalling school in those children who left at the end of year 11.

Last night I was in a school open day. Over 200 of our kids, from year 7 to year 13 gave their time volentarily to come back to the school to help the staff. And they were from the full range of kids that we have in the school, from all attainmentlet levels, including some who are statemented.

I think this says quite a bit about how highly our kids think of their school and how much they see themselves as part of a community.

I'm not saying that all our kids feel like this, but vast numbers of them do.

I feel this is getting a bit picky now but I'm not sure that's a convincing example that school is a good experience for the majority. 200 out of how many? Over 7 year groups?

Personally I think school is good for most kids, but most isn't all of course and HE is useful for those who don't fit into the 'most' bracket; also HE doesn't have to be permanent, it can be temporary or as part of flexi schooling.

DS1 benefits from school but would be better in a more aware environment than he is (although I met the new SENCO for juniors (he's going into Yr3) and was very impressed!). DS2 is hugely happy in the same school, and gets real benefits from the socialisation and learning experiences there. Same school, only one year separation. DS3 is mroe complex, and needs time to develop before a decision can be made- that's where HE comes in for us. Each child is different and so different plans are made for them.

Although was a bit shaky after seeing the report in the times about a Teacher who (alledgedly, the article was unclear whether the dunking was disputed, or the fact is was an assault) got away with dunking ann ASD child fully clothed becasue he wouldnt change (sort of thing ds1 would do, very body conscious) but just had to remind myself that there are bad eggs n every walk of life, doesn't change the general commitment of the majority.