katylyle tell us why you'd not HE your children please

[BeNimble]

my children are preschool yet though i'm serious about HE

MAMFM and Martian,
I said this as it was the reason given for homework by teachers at my schools and also by teachers at my sons friends school.I know there are some teachers who are amazing and actually have an interest in the dc's they teach and I'm glad you are some of them.However there are more teachers in the surrounding area in which I live that don't care and honestly can't be asked too.I knnow one teacher I had told our childcare class that we weren't worth teaching and she still teaches today.It is the prevailing attitude in our area I am ashamed to say.
My apologies for sweeping statements but was in a rush when I posted as had dc's nagging about lunch

After reading this thread, I asked my three offspring whether they will home educate their children.
It was nearly 7 years ago when we deregistered them from school. They are now aged 20,18 and very nearly 15. So they had a fair bit of school experience between them.
All are autonomously educated and so have no qualms about putting their viewpoints, knowing even if I disagreed their view would be equally respected.

They gave the question considerable thought. Firstly they said that they have no intention of having children for ages as they will be too busy having a life at uni/career.
The middle one commented that she could see how much we had sacrificed money wise, to do it, but thought from her point of view it was worth it.
The youngest said that it would be nice never to have to send children to school as 'they wouldn't be damaged, stressed or bullied'.
My eldest then said, "It might be good for them to go to school at first...........but only so that they know how truly lucky they are, when they are deregistered. All the kids who are HE from the start have no idea how lucky they are, they really don't appreciate it!"
The other two agreed wholeheartedly with the last bit-and so began a debate about whether not to send them at all or deregister after a year or two.

But they have no doubt that their children will all be home educated, just differences about when it will start.

thats so sad that their view of school is that it is universally damaging. They must have had terrible experiences.

I was very happy in school and would have been horrifed to be home ed'ed, saw quite enough of my mum as it was thank you very much

I run the local home education support list and am the email contact for our local webpage. I also organise some of the home ed meetings. I meet and talk to new families all of the time.
Sadly my children's experience of school is not uncommon. It is a story we hear all of the time, nationally and locally. Many of the stories would break your heart. We probably have about 5 families a month joining our local group-of those approx a third are those families lucky enough to have found out about HE at an age before their children are registered at school and never send them.
The rest have children with a similar heart breaking stories to mine.

However the flip side of this, we get to watch these children grow in self confidence and self belief, as they blossom in the home ed environment. They grow confident socially and are successful in their chosen path.
It's partly that success they see around them all the time, in their HE peers locally and nationally -as well as the happy stress free life we lead, that apparently convinces our children that they will definitely home educate their children one day.

kewcumber am a bit shocked at that post somehow

julie's kids may have different opinions to you. but to pity them with "thats so sad" is a bit patronising, really.

I had a very happy time at school. But I can see how, for kids, HE can be a lot more healthy. It has its own challenges and I would not say HE'd kids are universally happy. I don't think kids need, or ought to expect to be, happy all the time.

sorry to be patronising. It do think its sad that they think school is universally damaging. I can't thnk of another way to put it.

to think something is sad is not pitying is it? They sound like they had a good time being home ed so I don't pity them, its sad that their experience of school was so negative.

but that it their OPINION kc

I think that its a valid one. You may disagree, of course. But bear in mind that you have not experienced HE, iirc. Neither side has experienced the others viewpoint.

They might think most children are bullied etc at school whereas in fact most children have a great time at school. But those sound like reasonably well balanced answers. Presumably my children wouldn't consider it as they weren't home educated. Or do children like what they've had so if they were privately educated they want the same etc etc

On reflection I am shocked that you are so shocked. Don't you think a statement from a 15 yr old that a child in school would be "be damaged, stressed or bullied" implies a shocking (and sad) experience of school?

Its such a sweeping and extreme statement - if I had made a similar comment about HE I would have been shot down in flames.

I'm not challenging their opinion, I'm stating my reaction to it. I think its sad.

I do have experince of HE it wasn;t good but am quite prepared to accept it was the parents that were the problem and not a damning indictment of all HE.

do you think its good then, that their experience of shcool was so awful that under no circumstances (excpet perhpas as a lesson in awfulness) that they would let a child of theirs near one?

Xenia
the point for my children is that they HAVE experienced school-and home education.

Their stated decisions speak for themselves about the school system as they experienced it-and yes we are talking about three different schools as we have a first, middle and high school system here.

I'm sure the schooling system must suit some families-it's hard to remember that sometimes when I hear so many tales of woe though.

As long as home education is known as a legal, viable alternative to school is known about, I think it is right for every family to be respected for the choices they make for their own children.

There's nothing unusual about the way you're brought up making you as you are and within reason in a free country that's what we want. I suppose we also have to live with some British groups who bring up girls to believe they will be submissive to men and serve them and never work; others who are very left wing because the family is (or the opposite); those who don't eat meat etc etc etc and presumably schooling is similar.

I have political objections to home educaton if it deprives the country of female leaders, doctors, etc which we sorely need but as long as it's the husband at home making career sacrifice I suppose I can just about tolerate it.

What about when the husband isn't at home?

I too am sad that children's experience os school shout leave them with the feeling that any child at school would be "damaged, stressed and bullied" I don't know what it's patronizing to express sympathy with people who've obviously had a shitty time.

Two things have come out of this recent crop of posts for me. Please don't be offended, anyone - this is a debate and this is my opinion! I think that home educators are often so committedd to thier way of life that it's difficult for them to see the other side. Children are "damaged" by school and "blossom" when they are deregistered" Well, obviously this is often true. But surely it is possible for children to be "damages, stressed and bullied" at home?

And what about my dd, who is just about to leave a very ordinary state primary school? She has mixed with a huge range of children from all socio-economic backgrounds.(If I he'd her, I can practically guarantee that she would have no friends who, for want of a better way of classifying have free school meals She had learnt how to get along with children and adults she doesn't like. She has had huge amounts of fun with a giggling gang of friends. She has been the star in a school show. She has been picked for teams - and not picked for teams, and has learnt from both experiences. She has learn that some people are brighter than her - and some people aren't. She has had absolutely rubbish teachers (only occasionally - schools really aren't the hotbed of incompetence soem think they are!) and realized that it's still partially her responsiblity to manage her learning. And she has had wonderful teachers that have made her fizz with excitement about learning.
I could go on - but you get the picture.

When the wife deprives the country of her leadership etc skills then I'm not happy but I'd rather she were educating the children than sitting at home doing her nails I suppose. But I wouldn't stop it. I want us to have the freedoms to do these things and this Governmetn has not had a very good record at maintaining our freedoms in all kinds of areas although thankfully they've largely left alone home education and private education which is much the same thing - you buy the schooling you want and traditionally it was at home with tutors (what the Queen had - home educators are in good company).

kc, if it was a sympathetic comment I am sorry, I did take it the wrong way.

I suppose I see it as a valid opinion. its not one that I agree with. And I would not want my kids holding it, really, if I am honest. I don't think I was especially damaged, or stressed and was never bullied.

OTOH I suppose I feel that its hardly uncommon to be stressed and bullied (the damaged thing-don't like that. How can anyone feel able to judge if anyone else is damaged, with the implication that the judger ISN'T?).

I suppose my problem comes down to my opinion that we DO often rose-tint kids experience of nursery/school etc, without listening to what they are really saying.

oh I don't know.

ah but xenia this comes down to a very fundemental debate here.

I don't think time spent teaching (or whatever) a child is time wasted. I also don't think that by doing this a woman (or man) is depriving the country of whatever skills s/he has. S/he is using those in a worthwhile activity, and probably passing them on.

Time spent with kids is NEVER time wasted, IMO.

I have a feeling that we may disagree here though.

While I'm not sure that 'damaged' is quite the right word, my ds experience at secondary school, particularly the last 2 years, was enough to stop him even entertaining the idea of further education. In his case, school has closed doors and limited his options. I feel that it will be a long time, if ever, before he recovers from his time there.

Love your posts on here, katelyle. They really encapsulate some of the potential negatives of home education excellently, I think, without denying that there are some good sides. And LOL at you spending the first years of secondary school learning not to whistle while you worked!

Kewcumber, I totally agree with you that it is very sad for children to conclude that all schools are necessarily and by definition frightening, damaging places. That's my biggest problem with the idea of home education. I think that there is a huge danger of giving children the message that you believe that the mainstream world outside is inevitably big, bad and scary and the only place where ideas and people are safe and trustworthy is the tiny microcosm of the family.

We call it homeschool and I do mine. The reason is really simple, they get are getting a better education at home. I use a virtual charter school and they supply all my children texts. I made the decision last year after my fifth grader was still reading the exact same level of books as he was in second. He read June B. Jones and Magic Tree house books for three years. I expressed my concern about him not being able to read more difficult books and the school blew it off. This year at homeschool he made the transition to books like Old Yeller, Time Machine, and Charlottes Web. The math, composition, history , and grammer are all more competitive.

In the United States our schools are rated from 1 to 10. 10 is the best and 1 is the worst. My childrens school rated a 1 and I was not allowed to transfer them so I did make that choice. But let me warn you it is a lot of work.

I agree that a lot of the time we do view our children's experiences at school through rose-tinted glasses.
I also agree that time spent with a child isn't wasted. Time spent with children is an investment in the future.
Schools have a huge amount of fantastic things to offer. There are some brilliant teachers who do make a difference to children's lives and, it seems to me, they are working under incredibly difficult conditions. Unfortunately access to these things mean that you have to take a lot of stuff which I feel is not beneficial to my children. I don't feel that things are getting any better in schools. There is so much pressure to conform. Children are tested to death. They can be labelled a failure before the age of 5. Or, labelled g&t and then have immense pressure put on to live up to the label to produce those 'absolutely necessary'()10-15 GCSE results (grade a-c, of course). And if your child isn't a round shaped peg going through a round shaped system then trouble will be coming their way.
Mixing with all walks of life? Hmmm, again there are some aspects of life that I would rather they were older and with a more mature sense of moral values before they run across them.

but kids DON'T mix with all walks of life at school. They just don't. I have NEVER got this one

most kids will mix mainly with kids from their neighbourhood. These are the kids they WILL mix with anyway (scouts and all the rest, and just playing out) if they are home educated.

Schools are NOT bastions of social inclusion, they just draw from the local neighbourhood. Most neighbourhoods aren't socially mixed.

That's very true, fillydora