Regretting taking kids out of school.

[apocketfulofposy]

Posting here for traffic,sorry.

I have 5 children ranging from aged 6 to 10 weeks old.

We always planned to home educate after reading a book about it when ds1 and 2 were toddlers,then when ds1 was about 4 and a half,and i was pregnant with baby number 4,i decided to give our local primary a go,partly because it was just that time where he would of been going and partly because i was finding it hard with them all at home (no family on either side for 3 hours,husband who works away monday to friday,rural ish area,i cant even drive!).

Anyway reception was ok,he liked it,made plenty of friends,dc2 and 3 went to the pre school and liked it,except dc2 had lots of issues with hitting other children and just general destructive behaviour.

When ds1 started yr1 last year he hated it from the word go,he still liked seeing his friends but he really noticed the change between mostly play to mostly lessons,plus his teacher left after a term and the new one was very strict and spoke to the children like she was some kind of prison officer.

Ds2 started reception and seemed to enjoy it but after a few weeks i was called in a few times about his hitting and destroying things,they said he just physically wasnt ready to be at schoolt hat much so put him down to half days,which was a bit of a faff for me as i was in and out all day but it was fine.It didnt seem to help though and he was behaving worse and worse at school,especially at lunchtime,but strangely his behaviour at home was getting better.

Add to this the fact i was finding it hard carting them all around everywhere and i felt crap because i kept forgetting to reply to things and i kept hearing all this micheal gove stuff,i just decided to pull them out,id been thinking about it on and off for a while and just thought do it,and id id it almost on a bit of a whim.

The first few weeks were great and we all loved the novelty of not rushing around in mornings and the kids have been playing all day,and actually one good point is that they have been getting on so much better.

But apart from that i am starting to regret taking them out,i miss the routine,i miss being able to take the babies to their groups and talking to my "mummy friends"(cringe) i miss being able to go to the shop quickly with just the double buggy,i also just dont know what to do with them,and the house is just such a mess!

I know these are'nt huge things but its starting to feel chaotic and i can feel it going back to the way it used to be,before school,and it hink i underestimated how much it did for all of us.I just dont know what to do!

Help and advice please!xxxxx

The op is an example of a parent not having high educational expectations for her children. So should not HE.

I know 2 families like this who did.
In 1, the kids are annoyed with the parent, and actually say she did a rubbish job with them, and took themselves off to college to try and catch up a bit.

In the other, people comment on his lack of english skills, and lack of other quite basic skills.
We ourselves thought of employing him, but thought better of it.
We were concerned that he would be unable to operate expensive machinery.

Just to say that the "recognising something special" admissions process would not happen nowadays. There are people who regularly post on Mumsnet about not needing exams and getting in to Russell Group a universities with a GCSS in woodwork-it just does not happen.

I knows this feels completely irrelevant to people who have tiny children, and to some extent it is, but they grow up really fast, and if you had, as I have, watched a bright, committed young woman play catch up all her professional life because she decided at the age of 14 that she didn't need formal qualifications, then changed her mind in her 20s and wanted to become a barrister, you may not be quite so blasé about the odd GCSE.

In answer to your question ommward, both.

The state should be prepared to be sued, as it is for health and other things it runs.

And secondly. Unless a LA is told that there may be bad educational practices going on, they are not going to investigate.

In my experience, the most successful autonomous home educators are actually very well organised. They don't organise the education- but everything else runs like clockwork. Only then can a spontaneous desire to find something out be supported. It's no use saying to a child "that's a fantastic idea to write a story/bake a cake/find out about Vikings/make a circuit board-give me an hour to find a pen that works/do the washing up/search for the book/clear the table"

I don't personally know of any home educated young people who have got to Oxbridge without any qualifications.
i do however, know four people who were educated in exactly the way people have been describing, just living life, having fun, doing whatever interested them -with their parents facilitating their needs, who have either then chosen to go to college to get the required qualifications, or done some sort of distance learning -including using the OU, to get the required qualifications, who have gotten themselves into Oxford or Cambridge.
Ditto other so called 'Redbrick' universities. Universities all over the country are taking autonomously home educated young people. In my experience the majority of autonomously educated young people go onto higher education..others succeed in employment and self employment.
What universities and employers need to see is evidence that the applicant can perform to the required ability.
Astonishing as it may be to some, and contrary to what the schooling system wants us all to believe, you don't need any formal education from the age of 4-16 to do this.
Structured education is one way of getting there...and autonomous education is another.

"Universities all over the country are taking autonomously home educated young people"

Yes- if they have the required qualifications.

I can see how this would work if interests are 'facilitated'. I think it is being able to facilitate effectively that is the real issue - to be able to do that with a busy household must take real skill.

I am pleased that you get the rider 'if they have the required qualifications.
I think that autonomous education is much harder for the parent than any traditional methods. I agree with Martorana that you have to be well organised. It is so much easier to impose from above and say 'this week we are doing fractions' than to go off shopping in the sales and get home and the child wants to understand percentages. In the first you have time to get equipment and materials and resources and work out how you will teach it. In the second you are helping off the cuff, finding resources etc- not so easy if you get back, the baby needs feeding, the dishwasher needs emptying and they are going to want lunch + one child needs to be organised for a ballet lesson and another says 'but you promised we could paint this afternoon' . At least one is going to miss out, in my case it would have to be percentages with 'we will have a look tomorrow and in the meantime you can look on the Internet'. The child won't necessarily find suitable sites and by tomorrow they will have lost interest.
If you want to keep them fresh with a yen for learning you can't keep fobbing them off with 'later'.
Autonomous learning doesn't remain as simple as digging for worms , baking bread and making dens.

That's exactly right, Mistlethrush. Agree.

Most of the autonomous HE parents I know actually work harder to facilitate an education, the reason why (IMO) it works so well is because each experience they have is accompanied by information and support to obtain more, anybody looking in would most defiantly know an education was taking place.and the parents do know what the child is learning and so does the child.

You appear to be quite resistant to saying how your facilitating your children's learning,is that because your actually using one of the more radical approaches? Can't remember what they are called but they are quite popular in America and used to be favoured in communes,nowadays tend to be used a lot with traveller families?

I have a real issue with the idea of "facilitated learning" rather than teaching. I am prepared to admit that it may be my ignorance and I am prepared to be educated.

But what I find difficult is how can a parent who home educates hope to be able to allow a child to learn a subject that the parent knows nothing about, has no interest in or no aptitude?

Does that parent have to learn the subject at he same time but stay one step ahead? What if a child needs help to understand tricky concepts or asks questions? The internet is good, but I can't see how it could replace a good teacher.

Doesn't that leave a child floundering?

I don't think "facilitating learning" is an alternative practice, but it is an excellent complementary practice.

Bonsoir- agreed- and something that all good parents do even with children who attend school and indeed is done at school alongside other methods.

Absolutely

At the moment I have an ongoing project to facilitate DD learning about Art Nouveau. We haven't done any formal lessons or book learning - it's all been about practical visits. She is now getting to the stage where she spontaneously notices Art Nouveau buildings and features in Paris.

I can understyand that, but what if your child wants to learn Spanish- or latin? Do you have to learn too? What about an older child who has an interest in physics or kinetics? Do you have to learn the algebra in order to have a serious understanding of the subject- in fact would that child even know that she would need to study algebra in depth in order to study kinetics? Is that something you would be able or even want to do? How would you go about answering difficult questions about algebra?

actually i have looked on the local beavers website and it says quite clearly in big letters "i promise to do my best,to be kind and helpful and to serve god"

I agree that parents can facilitate learning around school. I did myself..i've parented one child all the way through school and the others came out of school when it was failing them so badly.

Autonomous home educators just don't have that interrupted by school.

And for the record i have found autonomous education MUCH easier than school...for lots of reasons.
I didn't choose this originally..it as forced upon that us as schooling simply wasn't working. It soon became a lifestyle choice though, and one we have no regrets about....other than didn't know about it sooner

No, it is of course impossible to teach your child a language you do not speak - you can engage a tutor, however, and send him/her on immersion courses, buy DVDs and books etc.

So you employ a tutor for all the subjects you can't manage. How is that any different from school? A tutor is "teaching" surely?

I always get the impression that HE kids come from reasonably well off families, so they can afford the extra books, tutors and entrance fees for exams. Is that impression correct?

the annoying thins is,ive spent quite a lot f time educsting myself about all these things,ive hadthe same questions too,ive gone out and found out the answers,it pisses me off a bit that now im having to educate you lot aswell.if you want to know these things then either go read a book about it or just google it,you can find everything you need to know there.

Google Sandra Dodd.

I employ tutors atthestrokeoftwelve and I think it's very different from working with teachers in school.

They work to my direction, in accordance to my son's needs and abilities, and it's very much a 1-1 personally tailored approach.

Grennie No, not well off - we are just fairly creative with spending and we do without a lot. There's only one wage in our family and it's quite low. Disability benefit supports my son's provision (he has autism and ADHD) but we generally live quite frugally because we can't afford to spend the way other families can. But we think it's worth it as HE is the best option for ds.

There are financial benefits to HE - you can go on holiday any time of the year and get good rates, for example.

pocket unless you are a gifted polymath I rather doubt that you will have the ability to acquire a range and depth of knowledge that your older children need. That's why we have specialist subject teachers at secondary school.

You're not that well informed about Beavers though! The promise changed last year (it was on the news and everything....) so there now doesn't need to be a reference to serving God. I suspect the website is horribly out of date as no-one in your Scout group has time to take on updating it.