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My daughters CAMHS councellor says if we HEd her it will harm her mental health

51 replies

MeanMom · 31/03/2012 23:08

DD is 13 and has missed a lot of (current) Yr8 due to anxiety and depression. She has just started to see a CAHMS councellor re the anxiety (we are waiting to see child psyc re depression). Her school have not been supportive and despite having seen her CAHMS assessment want a letter from GP supporting her absence from school. GP has not done this so far (GP and CAHMS each believe other should do this )
CAHMS have suggested DD go into school for a couple of hours to learning centre one day just after Easter Holidays. Her Vision Support Teacher (not school staff) will be their to go through what school have promised to have in place by then.
DD does not feel ready to go into school AT ALL until after her eye operation (she has bilateral cateracts - her vision is v poor) but we do not have a date for op. We have been considering Home Ed. but CAMHS say this would be running away from the problem and will be harmful in the long term.
I had asked for work to be sent home via VLE, I have also had the local Children Not In Ed centre suggested to me but school seem determined she should go back to the environment that she finds so scary, and DD is loosing trust in CAMHS for supporting this view.

Is H Ed 'running away' from her problems? I don't know what to do next?

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Betelguese · 01/04/2012 01:10

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Betelguese · 01/04/2012 01:16

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lindy20 · 01/04/2012 07:27

Hi, We are going to home Ed our son has missed 2 years of school have tutor supplied by school during the last year and a half....by he has anxieties especially around school he has aspergers ......hes nearly 13 ....where we live there is not much for him small market town in wales....i know how you feel

catsareevil · 01/04/2012 07:59

What do you want to happen? Do you want your DD to eventually get back to school?
CAMHS are very experienced in seeing children who don't feel able to attend school, and working towards getting them back into it. It is something that can be really hard
Their concern is most likely that because it seems that the need for the eye operation wouldnt in itself mean that your DD cant go to school, that the refusal to attend school is as a consequence of the anxiety. As such they will worry then that even after the eye op your DD will continue to have anxieties about attending school, but that by then she will have missed so much more school that it will be even harder to get her back.

Saracen · 01/04/2012 08:00

The sum total of what I know about the subject is a book written by Mike Fortune-Wood, which I find persuasive. It is called "Can't Go, Won't Go: An Alternative Approach to School Refusal." Fortune-Wood is a long-time home educating parent with a particular interest in school phobia / school refusal. He has provided voluntary support to other home educating families for more than a decade.

In his book, he says that in clinical and educational circles there is widespread acceptance of the idea that allowing distressed children to leave school and be home educated will cause them to become more withdrawn, isolated and disturbed. However universally accepted it may be, this idea appears to be a longstanding professional myth. He has been unable to identify any research whatsoever which supports the view that home education is harmful to children such as your daughter.

If I remember right, he does not have any clinical evidence that home education is helpful either. He does, however, present several dozen case studies in his book of children who have been home educated following school refusal. Not all of the children continued in home education in the long term, and not all of them were "cured" completely of their mental health problems by leaving school. But without exception, all of the parents were of the opinion that home education had been a very positive experience and was just what their children needed at that stage in their lives. The parents reported that far from becoming isolated, after leaving school their children showed an increase in confidence and began to develop an interest in being with other people in situations they had previously found unbearable.

If the view of the CAMHS counselor has any influence over you, I would hope that is because of his or her professional knowledge of the subject. I suggest you have a look at the book I mention, and then ask the counselor firstly to direct you to some research which indicates that home education is harmful to children such as your daughter, and secondly to tell you how many home educated children he or she has worked with directly and whether those children have got worse after leaving school. By "home educated" I don't mean children who are temporarily off school due to school refusal, illness or having been excluded. Such children may not be physically attending school but they are still living under the constant threat of being forced to go. I mean children who have been taken off the school roll and told they do not have to return until and unless they feel ready to do so. Most parents describe this as a key difference and say that their children only relax and begin to recover once they are free from the fear of school.

Don't be fobbed off with vague assurances such as "it stands to reason..." or "it has long been recognised in clinical circles..." Many beliefs in this world have been widely accepted which have turned out to be untrue: it seems obvious that the earth is flat, that the sun goes around the earth, that home educated children will be lonely and will develop poor social skills. If the counselor's opinion is just prejudice or speculation, then it is worthless to you. If you are going to trust somebody's uninformed intuition about the situation then you are better off trusting your own rather than the counselor's; after all, you're the one who knows your daughter best.

Saracen · 01/04/2012 08:05

Oh, and here's an email list for supporting families who are dealing with school refusal: www.home-education.org.uk/forum-school-refusal.htm As you might expect, it is pro-HE but not everyone who posts there is home educating.

ommmward · 01/04/2012 12:58

What Saracen said.

5madthings · 01/04/2012 13:03

i would go with what saracen has said and imo any education is better than non at all which is what is currently happening so if you can do some stuff at home, via the internet and home ed groups etc then it has to be a start.

and i hope that her operation is sorted out asap, is there any reason for it being delayed? perhaps if CAMHS are so insistent she goes to school they should be contacting the hospital and tyring to get the operation sorted out for sooner rather than later?

MeanMom · 01/04/2012 16:40

Thank you:)

The Op has only just been agreed (on Monday 26th) and DDs Opthamologist has to refer her to another hospital for it. She will recommend urgency but does not know lenghth of 'list' other surgeon has. Would be surprised if it's before June half term so another 6 weeks school missed.

I am not worried that she is 'missing education' because she is setting herself little research projects online and she was 'ahead' in a lot of subjects anyway. What she is missing is set syllabus and can't see her catching up - there aren't enough hours in the day. So more distress and worry about being 'behind'.

Do we want her to go back? Yes and no. If she goes to school at all it will be this school for various reasons - it is a selective all girl grammar. If we thought she would be happy yes, but as she said the other day 'it's no good having loads of GCSE's if you've gone loopy'. If the school would only give her some space then she might well be happy to go back eventually.

I am beginning to think they don't want her because she does not conform to their 'ideal' and is too much trouble with her complex health issues.

As I have posted before, if DD was confident of the 'social' side of HEd she would do it tomorrow - she thinks non HEd kids will think her weird for doing it.

If I could be certain she would feel better and not regret leaving I would de reg tomorrow. She is in a very bad place - if school would only accept this and give her some space (whilst sending work home) she/we would be able to decide carefully - not be forced into a corner.

I will get hold of that book, thank you Thanks

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Betelguese · 01/04/2012 18:27

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Betelguese · 01/04/2012 18:39

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MeanMom · 01/04/2012 19:23

Yes, Betelgeuse, we asked school to let her stay off til op. but they want her to go in - allegedly to break her in gently and as part of CBT she is to do a little part of what scares her - it will then prove not to be scary and improve her confidence. Problem with this is that going to school would be scary because until she can see she will have to trust other people to help her around- she doesn't.
DD said to me just now that the girl in her class that has needle issues is often in the learning centre too because of her problems. This will not help either of then IMO.
Our GP is not supportive either - I will look into a private Ed Psyc but I would doubt I'd get them to see DD before 19th April when she is supposed to start back.
I am going to phone the Opthamologist tomorrow to see if I can get her support/hurry up the operation.
Thank you again for your help BetelgeuseThanks

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Betelguese · 01/04/2012 20:41

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Notnowcato · 01/04/2012 21:25

My daughter was seen by CAHMS last year and was diagnosed as having unspecified anxiety disorder. Every day she cried about going to school. She said she felt sick and hated being there. Every day I made her go. I had all the resources the school could summon up testing her and assessing her and offering insights. None of it felt right. I thought she was bored and frustrated. I knew the teaching in the class was poor (one teacher off sick, random supply teachers) and my DD said the classroom was noisy and nothing was being taught. I ignored CAHMS and I told my DD to hold on because I knew the next teacher was a great disciplinarian and very clever to boot. I persuaded her to start the new academic year and promised her I would take her out and either move her or home educate her if it wasn't better. Lo and behold, I was right. She is back to normal. She isn't bored. She is happy learning. There is no daily sickness and only the normal amount of crying off school (maths tests!) (which I ignore).

My point is that CAHMS do not always know your child better than you do. If you and she both feel that in order to feel comfortable at school she needs to have the operation, then I'd say you are right. One thing I learnt last year was: trust your instincts.

(More flippantly: have you spent much time with professionals in this field? Some child psychologists are not entirely normal themselves Grin - she says and runs for cover ?)

Betelguese · 01/04/2012 22:15

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Notnowcato · 01/04/2012 22:55

Sorry for flippancy Blush. One person in particular we dealt with was really quite strange, though.

julienoshoes · 02/04/2012 11:18

I have a back ground in Children's Health and DH's is Psychiatry.
Neither one of us has ever met a health professional in these two fields who have ever had any real experience with home education to base their assumptions on.....until they met us.....

JuliaScurr · 02/04/2012 11:35

try youngminds.org re the anxiety
We had similar with dd without physical aspect
school refusal (two schools) then he'd, then school with v strong pastoral care.
dd now cured
main advice (that worked) - always give a way out for when they can't cope and never let them down with it

MeanMom · 02/04/2012 12:15

Julia - thanks I contacted youngminds back in September when things started to get bad - it was them that suggested referal to CAMHS but took til Feb to get the appt because doc wanted to try school councillor first.

I shall be phoning them again late today though.

Not sure what you mean about always give a way out...and never let them down with it?

Thanks everyone

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JuliaScurr · 02/04/2012 12:27

MeanMom when we got dd in a good primary, the (brilliant) head gave dd a card to hold up and a choice of 'safe' places/people to go to if she needed to leave the classroom. She explained it was good if things went 'wrong' so dd could test the system and find out it worked, so dd knew she would not be forced to endure it

JuliaScurr · 02/04/2012 12:29

After 4 years, dd was cured in about 3 months Smile
Head teacher was the key factor

Alltheseboys · 02/04/2012 12:46

You seem to be getting a lot of mis-information. Obviously it is your child but CAMHS see children like your dd all the time. I agree that your child would benefit from being in an alternative provision and I don't think staying at home will help to lift the depression or help her socialise at such a crucial age. CAMHS are headed by educational psychologists who work closely with schools.
I work in an alternative provision and I can honestly say that most school refusers or children with other mental health issues really enjoy coming in. I would not recommend a mainstream school as they have less time/experience for your child and are too big an environment for children with anxiety.
Good luck.

Alltheseboys · 02/04/2012 12:50

Meant good information sorry.

MeanMom · 02/04/2012 12:57

Thank you Julia - I see what you mean and yes that is a great idea.

Problem with that for DD is that more than anything else she hates drawing attention to herself - in theory she can alread leave class whenever she wants to because of her diabetes and she knows most teachers will not make a 'thing' of it. She does not want to do this in front of the bitches girls in her class.

Also there is at present no where she feels safe in school. She does not trust the teachers (in particular the SENCO) to not come and force her back into class. When they say 'do you think you could...', she hears 'You must...'

She says she is going to decide one way or another during Easter. I think she will decide on Home Ed. It may well be the right decision but I do not want her to regret loosing the place at this school as she worked so hard to get it. She is unlikely to get back in - they are vastly oversubscribed and she would have to re do entrance exams.

Off to phone 'youngminds' :)

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MeanMom · 02/04/2012 13:02

Thank you all -x post I think!

I have been recommended an alternative provision but school would not even consider it at this point. The AP told me I would need a referal from school or CAMHS - neither seem to want to go down this route.

Stuck.com :(

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