Help me prepare to suggest HE to reluctant DW

[confidence]

My DD (5) is currently in a local infants school that we are pretty happy with. When she leaves there at the end of year 2 (in just under 2 years) I would really like to consider home educating her. Primarily because:

• the junior school alternatives here are pretty dire

• she is academically MILES ahead of any of her peers, and going by my experience with her older brother, I just don't trust state primaries like those around here to actually educate her.

• she is extremely able and motivated at music, and I'd like her to have some time during the crucial early years to put her very best into that without going to school, wasting the best hours of every day and getting knackered in the process.

Both DW and myself are self-employed and make our own hours around parenting duties, so in a sense we're in an ideal position to do it. The problem is that DW is much more conservative than me and tends to be reluctant to challenge the status quo. We did discuss this before when DD was a toddler and her main objections were the old saw about socialisation, and the fact that teaching requires so much preparation, and she wouldn't have the time to do it properly and doesn't really want to be her daughter's teacher anyway. TBH though I think the root of her objection is more of a generalised desire to follow the crowd and she'll always find arguments to justify that.

However we just had a conversation with a friend, also a parent, the subject of poor school choice came up and DW seemed very unhappy with any of the possibilities. I made an off-hand comment that "perhaps we should start a free school" (although I don't honestly see this as an option) and both she and friend made very positive noises about the idea. So I'm sensing a chance. One factor is that we are in a grammar area, and DD looks already like she'll walk the 11+. So I could sell the fact that she'll end up with a "normal" secondary education, as making it easier to swallow a bit of risk and experiment at this stage.

TBH I've been thinking about this for ages without mentioning it to DW, because I know there's just be a kneejerk reaction against it and I want to be prepared, and do it at the right time armed with the right counter-arguments. Did anyone here have to convince a reluctant partner who just wanted to do things the "normal" way? What sort of objections did they bring up? How did you bring them round?

Thanks in advance.

SugarPeaSnap -

It's bizarre isn't it? I don't know whether you're right about my gender being a factor - I hadn't really viewed it that way. But I've reread my OP and am still struggling to find the part that says "Please use this opportunity to express all your personal objections to HE, and trot out the same old general arguments against it that are found time and time again on this board".

One wonders whether the same people frequent wine appreciation forums to preach the benefits of teatotalism.

Ho hum. Thanks again to those offering constructive advice. I am still listening, despite the noise.

"TBH I've been thinking about this for ages without mentioning it to DW, because I know there's just be a kneejerk reaction against it and I want to be prepared, and do it at the right time armed with the right counter-arguments. Did anyone here have to convince a reluctant partner who just wanted to do things the "normal" way? What sort of objections did they bring up? How did you bring them round?"

Sorry ifI misread your post, but surely the more posts listing objections the better? So you can practice your arguments? Unless all you want is people to tell you how wonderful it will all be, and you should go right ahead and do it, and ignore all possible downsides.

I generally get upset about double standards with gender responses, but in this case I would have said exactly the same to a woman. I think that it is better to discuss child philosophies before you have DCs. I would be fairly horrified to get 7yrs or so on and find that we had completely different ideas.

"I think that it is better to discuss child philosophies before you have DCs."

Well, yes, in theory, but in practice, home ed isn't the kind of subject that comes up a lot, I guess because it's out of the norm. I certainly hadn't ever discussed it with DH until we started thinking that DD2 was miserable and we had to try something else. I don't think this shows any lack of discussion/ relationship etc on the OP's part.

(tops my 791 words with a few more....I always have verbal diarrhoea and unfortunately for all of you can type very fast! )

There's also the fact that you don't know what DCs are going to turn out like until you have them.

And the fact that you don't really know what schools are like until your DCs are in them.

Both of these are huge factors here. We obviously had no idea that DD was going to be so advanced at reading, language and maths before she born. We certainly had no idea how much she would respond to and advance at music, which has been completely different from her brother. We also weren't aware of how much schools in difficult areas or circumstances often overlook and shortchange the brightest students, until we saw it happen with DS.

I suppose before they were born we DID have a pretty strong agreement on educational principles: state schools not private, and strong parental involvement developing interest and personal connection from home.

But circumstances come up in parenting that you hadn't foreseen.

I certainly read your op as quite dismissive of your wife's objections, OP- phrases like " generalised desire tonfollow the crowd" "knee jerk reaction" "conservative" " old saw"- doesn't sound to me like the language of someone ho is taking her reservations seriously.

O, and I would be wary of assuming that your dd will "walk" the 11+ - there's a long time between 5 and 10!

should think HE in music, foreign languages and art will be more effective than school teaching of the same subjects in primary.

If she is to get into her brother's grammar school later on, you will need to teach with that end in mind , covering the other subjects effectively which she'll have to pass in her 11 plus. If she is ahead in maths and literacy now, I would not put that on a back burner but keep it going

Totally agree zen, I didn't mean to suggest I would neglect those things altogether.

OTOH the kind of "literacy" needed to pass the 11+, here at least, is very different from what's taught in most schools. And NVR of course isn't taught at all. Apart from maths, she might be better placed for 11+ preparation being HE'd, having far more time available and being able to work to her own level and however we choose without constraint.

yes, I should think so

I think your DD would be better prepared for 11+ from HE. I did some verbal and non verbal reasoning with my DD2 just because it seemed like a good thing to stretch her brain - not something taught in a state school. She found it fun, too, like puzzles.

We discussed her going in at 11 and looked at a few papers for private schools. She was so well prepared for them - without having done any formal practice for them. Home ed encourages you to think your way round a problem for yourself, rather than being taught to the test. This stands you in really good stead. In the end she decided she was better off at home, but looking at what was required was interesting.

Schools do the sensible thing and don't teach to the test for 11+ (if only parents would do the same) if a DC is intelligent enough for a selective academic school they do not need more than a few practise papers to get the idea. If they need more than that it isn't a suitable school for them.
From what you say she is bound to get a place-as long as you are not under estimating other DCs.
Like seeker I find the OP dismissive of DW's concerns. If ever you get 'follow the crowd' it is 'put down'-sometimes people follow 'the crowd' because they are impressed by 'the crowd's' reasoning-and they are not following blindly.

The 11+ shouldn't be prepared for. . It is- but it shouldn't be. There is significant research to support the view that apart from a couple of practice papers, prepqration makes very little difference. My ds is a living test of thsi viewpoint - I'll let you know on Monday whether it's valid or not. Well, I would if I hadn't unaccountably become invisible. As I always do on HE threads. Strange, rally, I appear to be perfectly visible everywhere else.

I think that you are invisible because you were HEed as a DC and don't HE your DCs and won't accept that anyone or everyone can do it. (it is against the rules!)

I think, seeker, without being rude, that it comes across that you have a single axe to grind on HE, based purely on your own experiences years ago when not many people were HE'd and therefore it was very different to nowadays.

FWIW, I would say exactly the same to parents who slag off schools when they haven't been near one in 20 years and their children have never been.

I thought that every HE family was different?
I find it very strange that anyone can say what it was like then and now.
I have never found that she had an 'axe to grind'-it isn't as if she is against HE -she just challenges some people's statements about it. She is equally challenging about schools but that seems to be allowed- whereas no one, on HE threads, is allowed to challenge HE.
On the contrary, I think that more families were HEed years ago-it depends how far you go back. It was quite common when my mother was young. It is like anything to do with bringing up DCs these days-people label it and think it is something new.

Musicposy - did you leave it completely up to your DCs' choice at each point in their lives, whether they were HE'd or not?

SDeuchars - What does "EHE" stand for? I presume it's "home education" with something starting with "E" in front of it.

I am not grinding axes or slagging anyone or anything off. And did you notice my involvement with my 7 HE nieces and nephews, with Education Otherwise and with several local HE groups?

I think that is the invisible part seeker.

So does the "elective" refer to it being the DC's choice, or what?

Not sure how it would refer to the parents choosing it, since all HE would be elective in that sense.

Confidence- humour me please. Are you ignoring me?

"Musicposy - did you leave it completely up to your DCs' choice at each point in their lives, whether they were HE'd or not?"

Absolutely. It's not a decision I ever have or would make for them. At the moment, they are both at home by choice. They have always known they are free to go to school any time they like - if they are happy, I am happy. That's all I ask. :)

Seeker - Aw shucks, you rumbled me.