mum dragging kids from school

[MrsDrOwenHunt]

there is a girl at ds school who is 26 years old and has 5 children under 7 at ds school, let me make myself clear at this stage is not the issue, the issue is that she left school at 17 without any qualifications and is not at all educated, she has claimed benefits all her life and her dp works cash in hand whilst she claims, she also lives in a 2 bedroomed flat which looks like a kim and aggie show, her youngest are 2 and newborn and 3 eldest 5,6 and 8, they are already having problems at school and have hard time fitting in, to make things worse she thinks that she is a muslim and tells her dc regulary that boys are evil etc. she has now decided she wants to home educate and i am appalled, surely she cant do this?

Mrsdr you are doing the right thing contacting ss. It sounds horrific.

MrsDrOwenHunt I think you have been given such a hard time because your opening post appeared to play on several cliches that single home educators hear quite often. When I withdrew my children I wasn't working, we have been on the council waiting list for a bigger house for 7+ years, and if you had walked through my door on really bad day you might have assumed I was a lazy scrubber. I also, due to other extenuating reasons left school without much in terms of formal qualifications. So I daresay some people probably felt my children would be disadvantaged being Home ed. However my 12 year old is currently studying for an IGCSE in ICT and Maths and my 9 year old does some subjects at keystage 3 level. Both have the option to return to school if they wish.

I must say when I withdrew my children from school I did weigh up carefully the pros and cons considering our circumstances. And I am not so quick to assume that everyone who wants to HE necessarily should. I think the question is how many of the elements which would flag up concern exist all at the same time? If you genuinely feel that the children would be at risk of harm you should do what your conscience tells you is best. At the end of the day I don't know this woman. I however, wouldn't say it's her circumstances that should raise concern, but her mental attitude compounded by her circumstances IFYSWIM?

MrsDrOwenHunt,

I have come across such a case before, and if you intervene, you will be called all sorts of things under the sun.

If you are very concerned, phone your Local Authority's Safeguarding Children call-line (if you can't find it, tell me which LA you are in, I will find you the link) and leave the social workers and/or educational social workers et al. to do their jobs.

Incidently, I also know of a case whereby a civil servant 'had it in' for a home educating family. It eventually cost that civil servant their job - they had made totally untruthful allegations - and their colleagues were lucky escaped with own, only because they had pleaded ignorance.

"she has now decided she wants to home educate and i am appalled, surely she cant do this?" Well, that's not for you or us to decide or dictate what she can or can not do.

Hi I have just been reading this thread and I understand that some of the language in the OP may have touched nerves with some HE peeps who presumably get fed up defending their carefully thought out choices! However it does not sound in this situation as though the HE decision is being taken in the best interests of the children.

Genuine question - are there any restrictions at all on HE? Are any checks made on development, progression etc? Is there any obligation that can be enforced for any curriculum to be followed, exams taken etc? I'm sure that lots of people who HE do it "properly" but it is a bit of a concern if there is no regulation whatsoever, it does mean that some parents could just keep the kids at home all day and do nothing educational with them at all?

I know from my experiences that initially I was visited by an EWO then every 6 months or so the 'inspector' (shes not really an inspector they just ask if they can visit you and chat to the dc look at some work etc etc but we call them the inspectors) would telephone or write and arrange a time to visit - when she arrived I would have a report written of things we'd done like a school report etc and the children would show her some work and it all went very amicably in fact one of the ladies(there have been several ) occasionally popped in to chat to ds if she had a few mins or if she was in the area it wasnt 'official' it was genuine interest and she was very arts and crafty and she liked seeing things wed made.

The last home visit we had although it was very succesful made me feel quite uncomfortable 2 ladies came and were here for ages and looked at vast amounts of work etc and listened to the children read but I felt very on edge as though they were looking for an area they could 'fail' me on,also ds2 was quite ill and we were working towards his return to school and they kept referring to him being happy to be back in school ,however his return to school hinged on his health so it all felt awkward.

Since then ive declined home visits and just keep in touch with the inspector via telephone and letter.

There is no doubt in my mind that for most children school is the very best place to learn and I had a wonderful primary education howeber for some children it just doesnt 'fit'.

If the children really enjoy school and are thriving there why on earth woul a parent take them out?

"3 eldest 5,6 and 8, they are already having problems at school and have hard time fitting in,"

If the children are having difficulties at school maybe it's understandable that she would want to withdraw them until something can be sorted out at least.
Regardless of how things might appear to you could it be that withdrawal from school is the lesser of evils for the children at the moment?

However, if you feel there would be a problem with this family HE then you would be quite right to bring it to someones attention. Whoever you decide to contact presumably, the school would pass any concerns they have about the situation to the relevant authorities. At the very least they need to notify the LA of the children's dereg (by law) which would trigger the LA to make enquiries of the family as to the educational provision.

"If the children really enjoy school and are thriving there why on earth woul a parent take them out?"

My eldest son enjoyed school but had never had an alternative to school presented to him.

Like millions of other parents I never questioned putting my children in the mainstream school system. It was something you just did. I put both my DS in nursery part-time and then full time (I remember at the time I couldn't wait for them to start full-time) and then reception and so on. I didn't really start questioning the system until my youngest seemed to be quite unhappy and very bored at school: I was coincidently at the time considering a career in teaching and had opportunity first-hand to see just how prescribed and rigid everything had become and how difficult it was for good teachers to do what they did best and teach. I withdrew my youngest first and then my eldest asked to be withdrawn which I didn't do quickly: only after a lot of thought.

We do not have many good schools in our area and the few outstanding and independent ones are heavily over subscribed. For us home ed is the closest we can get to private education and still retain some autonomy over what we learn and how we learn it, and I have to say my DCs would never have had any of the opportunities we've enjoyed doing home ed in their previous schools.

I think if children had more choice some would choose school and some an alternative to school.

And in fact I think if children had to choose school as opposed to attending by default, schools would get better and better.

Shiney you are so spot on.

I'm sure they would, but I'm not sure what you would do with those who didn't want school or HE. Or mainly those who didn't want school and whose parents wouldn't or couldn't HE.

"I'm sure they would, but I'm not sure what you would do with those who didn't want school or HE. Or mainly those who didn't want school and whose parents wouldn't or couldn't HE."

Yeah it was a bit of a utopia statement. But I think if more parents campaigned for change - ie more alternatives to the NC mainstream school model things could improve on that score. One thing that would be good is to change the rules regarding full-time attendance: at the moment one has to ask head for permission to flexi-school, it is entirely down to the Heads discretion, and this request is usually refused. I think it should be made easier for parents to select this as an option if, say, they work part-time but couldn't commit to HE full time, and the choice should not be purely down to the head to decide: Perhaps if the parents would provide some kind of written philosophy putting forth their case for wanting to flexi, and this was put before a school panel for e.g.

Although some people might hate that idea too.

I can see why the school hates flexi time-the parent is putting the teacher into a straight jacket so they can be free to do their own thing. e.g. the class have been working on a project and are really keen and so the teacher wants to change the timetable and continue first thing next morning but x is coming, expecting maths and he can't do the project because he hasn't a group and hasn't a clue what has gone before. Do the whole class have to do maths or does he do some holding activity? I think that it only works if there is a rigid timetable at school-and who wants that?

ExoticFruits, I can see that as an argument for not flexi-schooling in primary. It should not apply in secondary, particularly not in the run-up to exams, but my understanding is that secondary heads are even less likely to go for it. That's unfortunate because it would certainly help some EHEers, those who do not have the finances or the confidence to go for certain exams as independent candidates.

It would make sense in secondary-I can't really say as I only know one case where it was wanted and they did it quite happily in a large comprehensive. (they just went in for the subjects they wanted).
It is unfair on a primary school-to let it be flexible for one pupil in a class they would have to be rigid with the rest.

Have you spoken to your friend about this OP? What does she think about home ed? How did she find out about it? Why does she say she wants to do it? (I know you said for an easy life, but is that your assumption?)

From your posts it doesn't sound like it would be a good thing for these children, but it is legal and she is within her rights to do it. Agree with other posters, tell the school your concerns.

Whoever asked where the "rest of the community was" - isn't it interesting how "the community" is always someone else?

quick update she has withdrawn all her dc and is now telling everyone she is sending her eldest dc to iraq to be brought up properly!! i did speak to her even though she and i are no longer friends, i asked her to reconsider as she will find it a massive struggle, she told me that she was pulling them out as the head teacher had picked on her eldest child as she was bullying one of the staff children, she then told another mum five mins later that she had pulled the children out because she was scared of me, 5 mins after that she told someone else it was because her dd was going to live in iraq. i again say i am not slagging off HE because in some ways i agree with it but its not right in this situation

If the LA has reason to believe an education is not being provided, they can make further enquiries.
If the LA/SS have welfare concerns, they have the powers to do something about it.
This is the same for home educated children as it is for children who attend school.

Well then MrsDrOwenHunt, having now spoken to her about your concerns, you can certainly speak to the school Educational Welfare Officer about your very real concerns and/or/get them to contact the LA to check and make further enquiries. If they agree with your assessment of the situation they have the power to do something about it and hopefully will.