This sounds mad to me, so what will the LA make of it?

[Vallhala]

Long story, but...

I have 2 DDs, 15 and 13 and have HE'd in the past. DD1 is in state secondary, it's not wonderful but she is happy and wants to stay there. DD2 is awaiting the same school to rubber stamp her expulsion. The really long background to that is HERE on the SEN threads. In a nutshell, she has always been "challenging" and is being expelled having shown such behaviour as a reaction to consistantly unaddressed bullying.

The LA's ONLY POSSIBLE current offer is a Pupil Referral Unit, which I have refused as it is totally unsuitable to place a scared child who reacts badly to aggression in with children who are in our LA largely there for the very reason of their aggression. Once the exclusion is rubber stamped in early September the LA will "probably", in their words, place her in their choice of a mainstream school - until they do she is offered nothing but the PRU.

In an ideal world I would like her to be assessed and placed in a school which will give her the support she needs but I don't honestly see that happening. If it doesn't. although practically and financially it will be very hard I will have no option but to HE. IMHO to HE is the BEST choice but it won't be easy (no support, DD v immature and can be a danger to herself so can't be left, no transport and in an isolated village with very limited funds etc).

Atm DD is staying with friends of mine, on their farm, which is an animal rescue. She is LOVING it, getting loads of independence whilst being safe, learning all sorts of practical things about animals, cars, tractors and so on. She's not your typical 13 yo, being far more into younger children's interests than make up and the Top 10.

If I do HE I think that it would be perfectly possible for my friends to continue to have her stay with them for a few days or a week a month and for that to become part of a very unusual, unconventional education. I would of course teach her the more academic side (she's of above average intelligence) and would do so in an autonomous, holistic manner.

But... to me this sounds a bit mad so I'm very concerned what the LA will make of it. I already have been marked down as a problem parent, having challenged the LA in the past wrt their demands to monitor and also wrt my formal complaint to DDs previous school where the bullying she experienced went unaddressed and the school's promises of assessment of DD were not kept. I fear that the LA will argue that DD is being taught in a way that doesn't reflect her intellect (although it would reflect her interests and personality) or even go so far as to consider her being at a rescue a child protection issue. For the record, the friends she is staying with I have known for about 6 years, the wife is mid 40s and childless, the husband early 60s and a grandad and I trust them 100%).

Has anyone any experience of HE-ing in an unconventional manner and any advice to offer please?

Hi,

I don't have any experience of this type of HE (although I do HE) but where we live (wales) there is such a thing as an alternative curriculum, for children who cannot learn in mainstream school (stories similar to your daughtter). One element of that learning is spending time at a farm doing what your daughter is doing.
Not sure if England have the same 'alternative' in yours or other LA's, but may be worth a look (even only so you can say 'ahh but they do what we are doing in X area'.
When I looked into this for someone, the learning outcomes were very good.
Another suggestion could be the Prince's Trust or if you have a local charity that engages young people, they maybe able to advise about that type of learning and the LA's view.
Not sure that helps, but hope it does!

That sounds an absolutely fantastic arrangement to me!! Even from a possibly closed-minded and traditional LA perspective, I have difficulty imagining anyone objecting to what you describe on educational grounds.

The only thing which makes me wonder a bit, is the fact that there are restrictions on the types of volunteering and work experience which young people can do, on a health and safety basis. For example, they can't work with heavy machinery or in a kitchen. I don't think any of the things you mention would be illegal. However, it might be wise to take expert advice on this or read up on the law yourself. Also check any local bylaws which your LA may have on children's employment and volunteering - it's a common topic for local legislation. (It can be hard to find local legislation. One easy way to do it is to put in a Freedom of Information Request for all local bylaws relating to children's employment: www.whatdotheyknow.com/) Having done that, if you are personally convinced that your daughter is safe but you think someone else might claim she is doing things which could possibly contravene the law, then you might save yourself hassle by ensuring that you don't mention any of those specific activities when discussing your daughter's education.

The LA has no right to inspect any of the places where your daughter's education happens. However, if it is considered to be volunteering, work, or work experience then the situation may be different. And if they actually referred her to Social Services then you may be obliged to allow inspections from SS.

If it seems simpler and safer to you, you could just omit all mention of your daughter's visits to your friends, and consider them to be recreational rather than educational - even though she is learning so much there! No doubt just the activities that she does when she's with you are giving her plenty of learning experiences which you could discuss with the LA if they ask about your educational provision.

Valhalla, I too would say don't mention any arrangement with your friends if you're talking to the LEA about how you're going to HE your DD. Why complicate things? It'll just give them the opportunity to find something they don't like about it. It might mean your friends being scrutinised by them too and going through assessments if your DD is staying over there etc.

I really sympathise with what you've gone through with the schools. I've been through similar with my DS (I posted on here but have now name changed). I've taken him out and have been HE'ing for a few months now. Not sure what the future will bring but at the moment this is what we're doing rather than the LEA finding him another crap state school to attend. We might try private in a year or two if I can get the money together.

Anyway, the last thing I thought I'd mention is have you been in touch with your MP? Go and explain that there is no logic in the LEA just finding another school based on convenience to them - because it has spaces. Tell your MP that it's a complicated story, you think she might have SN (not 100%) but until something is assessed and diagnosed one way or another it is not in her best interests to be shoved into any old school. Totally agree with you on the PRU - it's a dumping ground. Get your MP to write some letters to speed up getting her assessed then depending on the outcome insist appropriate schooling is found that suits her (easier said than done). You're fighting it alone at the moment on the ground level. Get your MP to fight it higher up, just so the authorities know someone outside knows the situation.

Your DD sounds highly sensitive. I know my son is. He reacts badly to being bullied. In the meantime HE just to give your daughter some breathing space away from it. Is she happy with this arrangement? It sounds like it's a vicious circle that she can't break. She's labelled by the school as being a troublemaker now and it's hard to break that. HE might break that cycle. Long term, and it's not that long away, age 16 a further education college might be the answer.

Thank you all for your help.

You have a point about the LA finding something to complain about - and if they considered the life DD has at the rescue, where she is treated part of the owner's family, "work", I'd bet that they would be damn awkward. They'd get an all guns blazing (s'okay, not literally!) response from my friend, who has as much tolerance for interference in his life as I do!

Tabliope, I've been cc-ing my MP into each email I have written to the LA recently and will this week follow it up with a letter describing some of the things which I've put on the SEN thread and asking for his help.

At present we are in no man's land - my DD will NOT be going to a PRU ("A veritable dumping ground", according to Speaker of the House John Bercow), but until she is officially excluded in early Sept she must stay on the excluding school's roll and therefore she is unable to be offered any other school place. All nearby schools are over-subscribed in DDs year so the choice the LA will face is to put her in a crap undersubscribed one a little further out or use the In Year Fair Access Protocol to compel one of the better schools to take an extra pupil.

Which will they do? Only they know but lets just say my confidence in them is 0 and they don't have a track record for putting the child's interests first. [anger]

Hi Valhalla, have you actually been in to see your MP? I think I read somewhere you live out in the sticks so probably not easy. I've done this twice now in two different areas - both times the MP took notes, asked me what I wanted done and duly wrote appropriate letter to schools. I suppose all I want to say is face to face is sometimes better (more immediate) than a letter - and keep visiting him/her till they do what you want. I had a follow up letter from one MP saying the date we'd met, what I'd asked him to do, what he had done etc so there was a record of it. It might be that they write to school saying constituent member (you) concerned about number of issues, what do the school propose to do or write to LEA saying why hasn't child been assessed yet. Sorry, if I'm covering old ground for you. It's just someone else (an outsider) putting pressure on them to act quicker because all the while your DD is in limbo not knowing where she is going. Do you mind me asking what happens if they don't permanently exclude her? Would you or your DD be happy for her to stay there? Does your DD know what she wants? My DS wanted to stay at school but only if the bullying stopped. We didn't see anything changing so he accepted HE was the best alternative. He's been really happy with it. I suppose the first few weeks of September will decide a lot of things once you know what is happening.

You sound like you're doing everything you can. It's such a battle sometimes while some poor kid falls through the cracks. Good luck. Let us know how it pans out.

Hi Valhalla, sounds like you have been to hell and back. I read the link to your previous thread. I am not an expert, but I am a girl with Aspergers who was also tested for giftedness. Your daughter sounds very much like I was at her age. She is clearly exceptionally bright and able but can not cope with her peers.
I can understand that she must feel very confused and frustrated. On the one hand being very bright and on the other totally baffled by the motivations of others.
The school and the LEA have so far been neglectful and I would even suggest that they have no right to question how you now choose to educate your daughter.
I would however look and see if a private EDpsyc report would further your cause. I would then put this to the LEA and suggest they either find a suitable school (very expensive if out of area) or help you with the costs of Home Ed. (law states that funds can be made available by LEA)
I am with the others regards your friends help, I wouldn't mention it, what they don't know!
I am Home ED my eldest Son, Aspie and gifted, not easy, I guess I rub along side him quite well and have very few problems but he can be calm one minute and just blows the next.
I am fine now, I survived school and higher Ed but even now I will avoid parties, weddings, coffee mornings, all the things that make life for others. I'm sure in the right environment and with acceptance your daughter can reach her potential and if thats on a farm far from the madding crowd, so be it and good luck,

Ask the LA to provide "Home Tuition" ....
They will provide a teacher to visit your daughter at home for say three hours per day.

Why is it that Local Authorities do not treat complaints effectively?