Japan (and possibly a day in China)

[niadainud]

I would be grateful for answers to any or all of the questions below!

1. I've found some great value tickets with Air China. Is it ok as an airline? I can cope with it not being the most luxurious travel experience, so long as it's basically safe and reliable.
2. I don't want to be over-ambitious, so am planning to spend roughly a week in Tokyo and about a week in Kyoto/Osaka with possibly some day trips. I'll probably be doing the trip solo and it's quite tiring working everything out on your own, hence mainly doing those two cities. I realise I'll only be getting a flavour of the country, but would I be missing anywhere absolutely essential that I couldn't accomplish as a day trip if I plan it like that?
3. Should I be looking for any specific type of accommodation? I.e. in Morocco I would recommend a Riad rather than a hotel. A ryokan? Capsule hotel?
4. Anything amazing that isn't on all the lists of obvious must-sees?
5. Will I manage with very basic Japanese? Is it worth trying to learn hiragana? Basic phrases? I did a short course and am planning to continue with Duolingo until I go (probably in October).
6. I'm a bit confused about onsens - do you also stay overnight?
7. Any other tips, like anything particular I ought to take?
8. If I do the journey I'm planning I will have a 20-hour stopover in Beijing so I'm hoping to go into the city for a few hours and then stay overnight in a hotel. It seems I can do this without need a visa. Can anyone confirm this, or confirm I've got it wrong? (Please only answer this one if you're absolutely positive one way or the other!)

Thank you!

1. No experience, doesn't get the best reviews, but if the price is amazing I would grin and bear it.
2. I would try not to miss Hiroshima, it's 1hr 44 each way by shinkansen from Kyoto, not sure if you consider that too far for a day trip? If staying overnight in Hiroshima then I would add a visit to Miyajima island (where the torii gate is in the sea) too. Personally I think this is better than Osaka.
3. Ryokan are nice, but several I stayed in have futon mattresses and you sleep on the floor, my hips get a bit sick of sleeping on the floor, maybe mix with some cheaper business hotels.
4. I loved mount koya
5. Yes you'll be fine, I couldn't speak any Japanese when I first moved there and was far from conversational when I'd finished working there after 8 months.
6. Sometimes Ryokans have them, but most are ones you just visit for a couple of hours.
7. My experience was 15+ years ago and I survived with just a rough guide to Japan. I have read visitors saying translation apps on phones are useful.
8. Yes, they have a 72 hour visa free transit option recently introduced, but not used it myself. I researched as we were considering going to Shanghai, but we are routing through Tokyo instead.

Thank you for taking the time to answer all my questions! Really helpful.

1. I've only flown internally in china with them so can’t comment on long haul
2. A week in both locations will be amazing, i would stick to that schedule - there will be so much to see and do
3. Ryokans are great but expensive! So depends on your budget
4. Arashiyama national park in Kyoto is a must see, especially in October - it will be on the must see lists but spend the day there.
5. In Kyoto and Tokyo basic phrases will be fine - went there by myself and had no issues. Learn your train stops before you get on. I think it’s worth learning the hiragana and katakana if you’re interested in it as it will help you translate menus etc. but Hiragana will be often mixed with kanji so will make it very hard to read.
6. Onsens are like spas; some are day spas and some are hotels you can stay at.
7. Take your own slippers for inside buildings where you’re required to take off shoes
8. No idea, sorry

I’ve forgotten how far each place was from the other/if suitable for day trips at all, we stayed overnight at each different spot but - I also loved seeing the snow monkeys at Jigokudani Monkey Park, near Nagano. We stayed in a ryokan nearby for a night. It was April when I went so snow just melted but still all looked amazing. I was big into photography then though and loved photographing the monkeys, so maybe it appealed more to me?
Nara was also lovely and well worth a visit.
Arashiyama Bamboo Forest when in Kyoto.

I didn’t do a capsule hotel because when I went 9 years ago they were mostly for male businessmen and finding ones for women were fairly expensive, but they’re probably more common now. A ryokan is nice to visit, but depending on prices, just a night in one to experience would be okay.

we spoke no Japanese (besides hello/goodbye/thank you) and I was surprised (especially in Tokyo) how few people speak any English, but as long as you have a translation app on your phone (so make sure you always have wifi) you’ll be completely fine. WiFi is also so handy for directions and bus and metro times/routes etc. Even if you go old school without wifi and just use a map, you’ll find people are so friendly they’ll try and help direct you even if you don’t speak a word of the same language.

I did 1 day (2 nights) in Beijing on my way back from Japan. I recommend the stopover as it was a great amount of time to experience the city, though I’d suggest going before Japan would be better. I say this because people in Japan are SO friendly, polite, courteous. In Beijing, not so much and it was a bit of a culture shock going from one to the other. I feel like it would have been nicer the other way around and ending in Japan. In Beijing between my friend and I we rented a driver for the day who in the morning took us around Beijing (plus stopped to do Forbidden City) and in the afternoon took us out to the Great Wall. This was a brilliant way of doing it as the tourist buses all go to the Great Wall in the morning so when we went in the afternoon it was pretty much empty. We then got to see it at sunset too. It also wasn’t much more expensive (albeit 9 years ago and split with a friend) than the group tour would have been.

Have fun. Japan is such a wonderful country with incredibly lovely people, and amazing food!

Many thanks!

I'm not sure I'll have the choice about order - it was just the way the connecting flights happen to work.

Do a bit more research on Air China

I would never fly with them

HI OP my carer is going in September, he has been a few times and speaks, well more than basic Japanese but no where near fluent.

I've found some great value tickets with Air China. Is it ok as an airline? I can cope with it not being the most luxurious travel experience, so long as it's basically safe and reliable.

No idea, but he is booked on them as well so I'll bookmark this and get back to you.

I don't want to be over-ambitious, so am planning to spend roughly a week in Tokyo and about a week in Kyoto/Osaka with possibly some day trips. I'll probably be doing the trip solo and it's quite tiring working everything out on your own, hence mainly doing those two cities. I realise I'll only be getting a flavour of the country, but would I be missing anywhere absolutely essential that I couldn't accomplish as a day trip if I plan it like that?

Go to Kyoto not Osaka

Should I be looking for any specific type of accommodation? I.e. in Morocco I would recommend a Riad rather than a hotel. A ryokan? Capsule hotel?

He stays in hostels but I think he has one night booked in a more traditional place

Anything amazing that isn't on all the lists of obvious must-sees? Have a look at Japanese theatre, Rakogo, Nok, Kyogen, Kabuki and Bunraku. There are some performances in English

I think that depends what you are into. I'll ask him, he is here later today.

Will I manage with very basic Japanese? Is it worth trying to learn hiragana? Basic phrases? I did a short course and am planning to continue with Duolingo until I go (probably in October).

In tourist places and hotels you will be fine, from what I know shops advertise if they speak English.

I'm a bit confused about onsens - do you also stay overnight?

Not normally, they are basically a selection of hot tubs but with mineral / spa water. Some in the countryside also have accommodation. If you go to one you need to be completely naked to enter the water.

Any other tips, like anything particular I ought to take?

It's nice to take things for people you meet. Sweets / biscuits. I think my carer intends to take something for the flight attendants.

If I do the journey I'm planning I will have a 20-hour stopover in Beijing so I'm hoping to go into the city for a few hours and then stay overnight in a hotel. It seems I can do this without need a visa. Can anyone confirm this, or confirm I've got it wrong? (Please only answer this one if you're absolutely positive one way or the other!)

Sorry I can't help on that.

Definitely not a deal breaker - just that I think it would have been nicer the other way around. I wouldn’t not do the China stop off if it was the other way around but if the choice is there, I’d do China first.

Why not?

As I understand it one of the main issues currently with Air China and TBF any of the Chinese Long Haul airlines is that they sanctions bust by still routing to/from Europe through Russian airspace (that's one reason for the relatively cheap tickets verses European operators serving China).

Their safety record is OK, not sure about service standards,.food etc, on-board.

Thank you very much.

Same. I'm planning a similar trip and set my flight searches to exclude Chinese airlines. It's a 14 hour flight, so worth paying more to go on a decent airline.

We did a tour of China a few years ago, all (6?) internal flights were with Air China.
Absolutely fine; flights on time, good service, good food.
Can't comment on long-haul, but I'd be happy to use them.

It's a 15 hour flight. Be fussy.
Join the Japan planning thread on here.
Japan is incredibly affordable as the exchange rate is very good. It's a wonderful country you will have a great time.

1. Ive never flown on a chinese airliner due to reputation. Id possibly rethink this. What would it cost you to buy new clothes out there if your luggage didnt make it, for example?

2.Agree with Kyoto over Osaka if you are only doing one.

1. Few Onsen have accom and it tends to be ££. Capsule hotels are very very basic, I wouldnt, (or maybe 1 night as a novelty).

Candeo hotels are a good, safe bet. (The one in Kyoto has a free onsen but its more of a spa than an onsen). Id also reccomend the Shiba Park Hotel in Tokyo. Like a boutiquey london hotel with a library theme but very inexpensive for the standard.

1. Like the previous posters advice about visiting the Great Wall, id recommend doing things at quieter points as Kyoto in particular is very, very busy.

Eg. Gion in the daytime is so full its awful, pushed from all sides, cant stop and look at anything, the crowd just pushes you along. We did the Gion nighttime lantern tour and it was practically deserted, and beautiful.

Similarly the Fushimi Inari Shrine (the one with the thousands of orange torii gates)...so busy at the bottom with everyone trying to get their pictures, but the gates go all the way up the mountain, so take the hiking trail up to the top, its very quiet and beautiful, with the same corridors of gates.

All shinto temples are open 24 hours a day, so can visit at quieter times.

A few things lesser known things we loved: the cup noodle museum in Yokahama (30 mins on train from Tokyo. We loved the spirit of this place, and who doesnt want to make and decorate their own cup noodle 😆

Taking the Yurikamome line from Shimbashi to Tousou ( in Tokyo). It has a driverless open cab with big windows so its basically a 15 min panoramic tour of Tokyo bay, especially when crossing the Rainbow Bridge. Go to the front carriage. Its very special.

Top tip:
On Google translate, put in Japanese to English and then on the right of the boxes to enter text there is a little lens symbol, if you click this it will translate whatever the camera is pointing at, road signs, menu, ingredients on packaging etc.

Transit visa -I did the 126 hour one but you had to be going from one country and onto a third. So you should be okay on that if it’s on way home. But they want to see evidence of your hotels and may not be happy with just a clear layover. I used the thread in flyertalk to be happy with my route (but I did uk /hong Kong/ China/ Tokyo then flew back from Osaka)

flying into Tokyo and out of Osaka is easy and do the train one way. I used caffay pacific for my flights and went via Kong so effectively a long layover on way out and 2 hours on way back.

I’ve done that trip - Air China is fine, it’s very budget though. A bit like a long haul EasyJet. The food was fine, the films were mostly in Chinese but if you have a tablet with downloaded films that will be fine.

The visa part is true, and we had a night and a day in Beijing. Our phones wouldn’t work at all, wouldn’t even connect to wifi, so you’ll need cash. We saw Tiananmen sq, but the queues to get in were huge, I think you need to book a tour in advance and we didn’t have enough time. It was an interesting add on to the holiday though, and I’m glad we were able to do it.

The Chinese airports don’t seem terribly familiar with the process though - be prepared for it to take a while to get the short stay visa sorted! But as I say, I think it was definitely worth it.

.

ShibuyaScramble · Today 09:51

"Ive never flown on a chinese airliner due to reputation. Id possibly rethink this. What would it cost you to buy new clothes out there if your luggage didnt make it, for example?"

Airports handle baggage, not airlines, so just as likely to happen whatever airline is used.
BTW, clothes are very cheap in China.

So I flew Air China in March and can’t recommend it enough. Premium Economy was the price of economy for other airlines. There were 24 seats in the cabin and going there 13 were booked and on the return journey only 9. All the passengers moved around, I had the a set of two bulkhead PE seats to myself. My DS and the whole row of 4 bulkhead seats! I popped my feet up on my bag and various spare blankets and slept for 6 hours straight, nipped to the loo and then dozed for another 3 hours, I don’t get this much sleep when I fly business class.
Not only that the flights to Beijing and from Shanghai were hours less than BA for example as they are allowed to fly over Russian airspace.

One of the advantages with using Air China is the OP won't be exposed to a 15 hour flight.

Europe to China (either Beijing or Shanghai) through Russian airspace is a lot less than that, the downside is the hassle of connecting/layover if the final destination is Japan...personally I'd suck it up and pay to go Europe- Japan none-stop (which will generate a much longer flight but gets it all done in one go, but of course I'm not paying).

TBH I didn't understand the lost baggage reference either.

Yes Chinese immigration can be a bit PITA paperworkwise but heck their airports are impressive (but huge).

No idea how to attach a screenshot, i think mumsnet has banned it (!) but if you put 'does air china lose more luggage' or similar into google, you'll get an idea of why this happens.

We went to Japan about fifteen years ago and are thinking of going back, so this is on my mind. I can’t speak to the China part, sorry.

I’d agree with Kyoto over Osaka – they’re completely different places, Kyoto is historical but Osaka isn’t. I liked Osaka, the food was good, the castle was cool, and it was quite cheap – but it’s like a second Tokyo, you really don’t need to stay in both. The trains are so good that it’s only about 20 minutes from Kyoto anyway.

Nara is near both and is meant to be lovely and old, but we didn’t go.

Tokyo is the best place I’ve ever been for walking – safe, busy but not overwhelming, interesting sights everywhere. Yanaka is an area worth visiting because it survived the firebombing, so you can walk narrow wooden streets. There was also a cute old tram running the streets there.

We didn’t have any Japanese so it must be easy enough to get by, but we weren’t exactly trying to be chatty.

My best tip feels like sacrilege, but the greasy-spoon-looking restaurants you see around the place are perfect for eating – you feel like a tit the first time you go but it’s just so fast and convenient. You order at a vending machine outside, sit at a Formica table inside, and pretty quickly someone comes out from the back with a tray of pork katsu or whatever. It was only about a tenner each too, so you won’t get cheaper than that.

I flew Air China earlier this year, Heathrow to Beijing and Shanghai to Gatwick. For work so booked by work. Absolutely fine, no different to any other airline I've flown.

Thanks everyone.

I actually called Air China last night with a few questions and they were extremely helpful. They even pay to put you up at the airport if they have room availability!