Greek island but without the strays

[TreatTreat]

I'd love to visit a Greek island. Is there one without any stray animals in the main resorts? It'd really upset me seeing them.

Spain is a big country, so it's likely, but I have never seen any where I go and I go four times a year for 17 years.

Often they’re quite young cats or kittens. I don’t think they’re malnourished or in poor health.
They seem well and happy. They lounge around in the sun / shade and people in the community put out food. They’re not stray in the sense of being without the home, they just don’t have owners - they’re happy roaming around and living their life. They’re fed.

That’s not at all my observation. I’ve seen lots of cats with wounds, very thin and sickly , obviously starving.

They're quite young because all the older ones died the previous winter when there weren't tourists to feed them!

Spain has loads of stray cats and dogs and a bad reputation for animal cruelty. Admittedly ive never seen any strays when ive been on holiday there, so there must be areas worse than others

I will never visit Greece because of the stray animals. It would be too upsetting for me. My mum rescued a stray dog from Crete in 1986, brought her to the UK, quarantined then she lived until she was 14.

Many animals there have a very hard life especially when the tourist season ends.

This charity has been going for many years and do great work in Greece with all types of animals and work alongside local charities and volunteers
https://www.animalactiongreece.org/

(they used to be called the Greek Animal Welfare Fund)

They're young because life expectancy is very short! Also for each one you see, probably fifty kittens won't have made it to adulthood.

The South is much worse than the North. But the North is still bad but, like London, it tends to be more hidden from view

Same here. We are just back from Turkey where we stayed at a 5star resort. The cats there were not strays but the hotel cats.
I mostly sat indoor but even then they would make their way there.
One rubbed itself against my leg and I jumped out of my seat.
Unfortunately it’s not a phobia most people are sympathetic to. It really impacted my ability to enjoy my holiday with my children.

I will never be a cat person but I need help
to deal with my cat phobia😢

You'll see lots of happy, plump cats on holiday but in the winter it's a different story. Poisoning is still a huge problem in Greece, although they have made big improvements to their animal welfare laws over the last decade. I don't think you'll find anywhere in Greece without strays.

I live in Cyprus and there are more cats than people here. While there are some excellent charities and TNR programmes it just isn’t enough.
Where I live my husband has trapped many, many cats over the years and we have paid for the neutering ourselves as the charities are so underfunded. The government does try to help with vouchers for approved vets but they never have enough and they get snapped up really quickly.

Most Cypriots don’t give a hoot that cats (and dogs) continue to reproduce and have very little love or care for them. I say this as a Cypriot myself.

Isn't that the case for most animals that aren't pets?

Most wild animals live this way, but we don't (and shouldn't) intervene.

This isn't a wild eco system though is it? Cats were introduced by humans to most countries for pest control. In the modern world, unless living somewhere with an inexhaustible supply of rodents which are uncontrolled by any other means, they rely on humans to survive. If it doesn't bother you to see cats suffering and to know they are dying, very young, in huge numbers because nature, well then you are just the sort of tourist that will be fine in these places.

I mean, come to think of it, humans are just animals too. And it's also natural that lots of them in certain places will die of starvation or disease if the crops fail for some reason. No reason to be upset about that though right? It's just nature.

Small cats are native to Europe. There is a supply of small prey animals to support them. Although the cats we see at resorts aren't wildcats, they presumably occupy the same niche and if they are breeding and living without human ownership they aren't pets. Most animals throughout the world have numerous young, most of which die.

You can't compare humans to (other) animals. If you value a cats life as much as a human life, there's something wrong with you. Any human who relies on crops to survive is not living in a wholly natural way in any case. There are still a few tribes who live fully natural lives cut off from civilization and we don't interfere ( in many cases it's illegal to do so and the tribes themselves reject it).

As I said, if it doesn't bother you, which it obviously doesn't, then crack on. Visit those places and you'll be fine.

And I personally certainly value a cat's life as highly as a human's and indeed more highly than a lot of humans. Suffering is suffering. Hunger is hunger. We may be a superior species in many ways, but we're not a nicer one, and I find our disregard for the suffering of other species unforgivable.

And again, cats rely on humans for food. There is no plentiful food source for them in these places.

There are people who don't care because they don't understand the reality of it - as evidenced earlier in this thread. And sadly there are plenty, like you, who just don't care full stop. I also meet them all the time when trying to deal with the same issues in the UK.

As a slight aside, fat Tabby's are a very much a Northern European trait. Even very well looked after owned and domesticated l cats in and around the med will be thin. It's the heat and their diet.... More fresh fish. They tend to mirror their owners in that.

I love cats, and my relations in Italy always took in strays and looked after them, but many chose to stay independent, and only arrived daily to be fed. They are neutered, flead and wormed, and have access to vets when needed.

I certainly value a cats life more than humans. They need us to survive. Humans are so selfish.

Do you value a rats life the same as a humans too? Arguably they are in a similar situation as the feral cats - human actions have made food plentiful for them and they breed accordingly. Rats are intelligent, social animals, but we don't have trapping, neutering and rehoming programmes for them.

Sentimental people bringing food to feed feral cats are contributing to the issue. The cats, like any animal will breed more, the more food is available and then once the excess food stops, most will die off.

Its not that I advocate deliberate cruelty to animals - I'm just unsentimental about them. FWIW I don't really approve of keeping animals as pets. Even well looked after pet keeping contributes to the pet trade, which is a source of more cruelty than tolerating feral cats in tourist areas. I would be happy if no more animals were bred to be pets and the existing pets not replaced when they die. (Note I'm not advocating turning pets out into the wild, as this would be cruel because they have lived all their lives in captivity and most have no survival skills)

As a species - yes. As you say, rats are intelligent and sociable and suffering is suffering - and I despise the selfishness of humans as a species.

I agree with you on one thing though. It's my fantasy that cats and dogs and probably quite a few other creatures too would suddenly become infertile and so die out.

Yes for the few that would have had a nice life as a well cared for pet that's a shame - but to eliminate the awful suffering of the other 99.9 per cent - entirely worth it.

Yet another loopy animal thread on MN.

When I go abroad and see street animals I stay away from them because of the risk of disease and parasites. Any sensible person would.

When I go abroad I don’t presume to impose my values on other people. That would be very unpleasant, racist even.

Cats’ and rats’ lives more important than humans’ lives? FFS.

I've always assumed the local authorities in Spanish tourist areas cull strays.

I'm also of the "aww, cute" variety of tourists - have enjoyed many temporary pet situations with cats on holiday, and sometimes other animals. I've also encountered plenty of rats while travelling and, although they're fun to watch, I'd prefer prolific cats and/or foxes which doubtless discourage rodents.

The only strays that really bother me are humans, especially children 😢

It does make me sad that so many animals have a difficult life made harder by humans.
I think that what animal rescuers do is a noble cause, and are doing a good thing.

I am still able to enjoy seeing cats and dogs when on holiday. I always get excited to fuss over any animals.
I enjoy seeing fields of cows, despite knowing what theyve got coming to them too.
I enjoy seeing a pheasant in the countryside, and i try not to think about the fact its only been bred to be shot by farage types.

Youve just got to do what you can to enjoy things that give you pleasure , without letting too much of the horrors.

I currently have 3 spanish rescue dogs. Ive volunteered in the local cat rescue before.
I do what I can.
Just because someone enjoys stroking and feeding cats on holiday, doesnt mean they dont care and it doesnt mean they are oblivious.

I do judge a place on how they treat their strays though.

The campsite in croatia where we had a family of really quite healthy looking cats inc older ones, i could see they were getting fed by staff, and it was such an idyllic place in many ways, that i felt that maybe a shorter life in a place like that , in a colony where they are fed, compared to a housecat in a flat in london that never steps on grass or climbs a tree, but at least it lives 17yrs?

I felt bad for some of the cats in malta, although in some areas they are looked after ok.

In Essaouira Morocco, people seemed to be feeding the cats and dogs, and being a year-round place and a fishing town, i think that they were just accepted and muslims generally respect cats bc of the prophet muhammed was a cat-fan. That didnt mean that they get them vet treatment though, and I would love to be able to do something for the moroccan strays. Maybe when I retire!

I felt sad for the donkeys, monkeys and snakes in marrakech too, but I think that plenty of animal neglect and cruelty goes on close to home too.

If you cant filter it out then its hard to deal with anything.
Copenhagen might have less problem with stray cats, but I know that they have an awful reputation for industrial factory-farming pigs and that makes me sad.

If that was the case, many of the greek islands animal shelters for example, wouldn't have the volunteers that they have today. People go on holiday and volunteer their holiday time to look after cats. People go for weeks at a time to help out. See it on the FB pages all the time.

Glad we are not all like you, or these shelters would not exist.