Can I travel abroad with my child without a letter of consent?

[L1E]

I’ve been separated from my child’s father for 18 months now, we live separately and the time with our child is spilt between the both of us.

There is no court order or custody arrangement in place, currently.

My Childs father is due to take our child on a UK holiday for 14 nights at the start of the school summer holidays. This holiday was booked last year without my knowledge and no “consent” has been sought from myself (Childs mother) in relation to this upcoming holiday. I found out about the holiday through friends months after it was booked. Our child is aware of the holiday and excited. As much as the thought of spending this amount of time away from my child causes me distress, she’ll have a wonderful time.

My child’s father asked me the other day if I intended on taking our child away at all during the school holidays, I said I wished to but hadn’t confirmed anything as of yet due to money. I went onto inform him that I’d been offered the opportunity of potentially staying at a holiday home of someone I know, with my only expense needing to be flights and food for the duration of the stay. I wouldn’t be able to confirm anything though until closer to the time, as I’m waiting on dates for if the property is available, if at all. There’s the possibility that should the property be available, whose home it is would also be using the property at the same time. It’s large, has 5 en-suite bedrooms with a shared kitchen, outdoor area and pool. I’d in theory be holidaying with people I consider friends and “renting the room”.

He doesn’t like the people I would possibly be holidaying with and therefore his immediate answer was no. He will not allow me to take our child away if our child will be in the company of these people because “he doesn’t like them” .. he’s gone as far to say that if they’ll be in the country at the same time as myself and our child that the answer is again, still no.

Can anyone advise me on where this leaves me please?

Am I not going to be able to travel away with my child because he doesn’t like the company I may or may be in?

Does he really have the right to tell me no if I and the people around me pose absolutely no risk to my child?

Im really struggling to grasp if in fact im in the wrong for considering taking this person up on their offer or if my child’s father is being unreasonable?

Has anyone experienced anything similar and still managed to give their child a holiday despite the other parent being displeased?

Any advice would be appreciated,

Thank you

So I'm not sure why you think DC's father would need your consent to take her on holiday in the UK? Is it because the duration of her time with him is longer than you have been doing so far? I think if you had a formal court order it would probably include a longer, continuous period for each of you in the summer holidays.

You do officially need his consent to travel outside the UK with her. When I last travelled a few years ago with DS I think the typical experience was not to be asked until you were returning to the UK (god knows what the point of this is) and only to be asked to prove my relationship to him, not the question of permission. From reading newer MN threads I think the level of enforcement is increasing.

I think the right solution is to seek a Specific Issue Order, but I am not sure there would be time for this before the summer holidays. You would start with mediation.

Firstly I’d be pointing out that you wasn’t asking for permission but simply answering his question. If you need to travel by plane could you find out if you can use Childs birth certificate along with passports to prove you’re Childs mother?

If you're worried getting a specific order to take her abroad, but if you don't think he'll actually report you for taking her then I just take my sons birth certificate with me along with obviously passports to prove I'm his mum. Different last names. We were asked driving into France off the ferry.

could you find out if you can use Childs birth certificate along with passports to prove you’re Childs mother?

Technically no, as the question isn't whether she is the child's mother but whether the other parent has given permission to travel. In reality, for the vast majority of MNers who get questioned, the birth certificate is accepted.

I don’t think he needs my permission to take her on holiday in the UK, I added that in to put light on the fact that he’s getting to take our child away for an extended period of time which is out of the ordinary to what we currently do and I don’t get to dispute the matter. Nor would I wish to dispute it because he’s taking her on holiday. He’s more than entitled to take her away without any issues, just as I should be..

I have had a look at newer threads but the advice varies, so I thought I’d post my own to help guide me on what’s best to do and the route I need to go down.

I haven’t heard of a Specific Issue Order so will take a look, along with mediation.

Unfortunately our co-parenting journey up to this point hasn’t been straight forward, this is just another bump along the way.

I’d be travelling to France via plane, her passport and birth certificate are in my procession. I only wish to take her for a holiday of 7 nights.

He only doesn’t want to give me permission to travel with her because he doesn’t like who we’d be staying with. I don’t understand how disliking someone is grounds to deny your child of travel?

That was it, I wasn’t seeking his permission. I answered his question and he didn’t like my answer. Now he’s saying he doesn’t give me permission to take her away, not even if I was willing to try and organise staying elsewhere if the people he doesn’t like are even in the country.. how’s that fair?

I don’t understand how disliking someone is grounds to deny your child of travel?

Agreed, and I would expect a judge to agree with you, but in the absence of an order the other parent doesn't have to give a reason. They either give permission or they don't.

In practice I think he would actually have to report you for child abduction to have you stopped from leaving the country, which would be an extreme escalation.

@L1E They just asked to see my sons birth certificate, asked him who I was and waved us on.

I’d like to believe he wouldn’t report me for child abduction when that’s certainly not what I’m doing

I’ve read lot of that, which makes me feel a little better. I guess I run the risk of being turned away should they not wave us on but it’s a risk I’m willing to take.

Last time we came back in to the UK (early April) border control asked my 9 year old who he was traveling with. Both my husband and I were present and that was as far as it went once he answered. No immigration officer in any other European country has ever asked anything about parental responsibilities when we've entered. That's not to say it couldn't happen, but it's definitely possible you could enter France with no questions asked.

I say this having never had to share custody of my kids with anyone, but it sounds like you need a much earlier agreement on who has which dates with the child in the school holidays, e.g. ex gets 2 weeks and then you have them for 2 full weeks. He shouldn't be surprising you with the fact that he's booked a 2 week trip that you weren't expecting and vice versa.

It isn't grounds for refusal and you are entitled to take the child on holiday for 7 days.
I've only been asked once about the kids. For years now I haven't bothered with the letter (I used to at the start). I don't even have the same surname any more.
I don't think you need to worry about the travel side.
The only question is how to deal with ex. I'd be tempted to say that you are taking her on holidays and that's that. If he wants to stop you then he can apply for a specific issues order, which would never get through.
He's just being petty. Never tell him again the details of your holiday. Just tell him you'll be gone for these dates that is it

What I've noticed happening is that they ask the children casual 'ohhh, are you going on holiday?' sort of questions at passport control that you would not even notice if you weren't thinking about it.

You are supposed to have a permission letter. There's a chance that that they might stop you from going but if you are going to a holiday destination with holiday things in your suitcase and you train your dd on what to say and take her birth certificate you should be fine.

Unless he does something more official to stop it.

Yeah, my friend had to deal with this a few years back.

She just said to the official questioning her "I have no idea where he is as he hasn't seen or supported his child in over X years. But if you can find him perhaps you could ask him to pay all the maintenance that he owes?"

They just waved her through and looked a bit embarrassed about it.

You might need to get a Specific Issue Order eventually, but for now, taking your child abroad might be possible if you bring the right documents and are ready for questions at passport control.

Does he have parental responsibility, is he DH ?? If just a separated partner and has not sought parental responsibility, you do not have to seek consent

I've travelled a lot with my child - solo mum - and have never been stopped or asked about it at passport control. We even have different surnames. Although his surname is in my passport as "divorced from". We're not British.

He's coming up to 33 soon.

Posters on here will always say you don't need proof of permission for taking a kid abroad. Unfortunately if you have a different surname to your kids you may be asked for proof!

I used to take my kids out the country 2 or 3 times a year and always had a letter from my ex confirming he was happy with them being out the country between x and y date.

I've been asked for proof about 4 times in 12 years. Once I took my daughter's 15 year old friend on holiday with us, my daughter was 16 her friend was 16 the following day. They asked for proof from her parents!!

They wouldn't accept a phone call so we were held up at passport control while we got her mum to email passport control to confirm she was happy for her daughter to be out the country!

Although to be honest the email could have been from anyone and the letter I used to carry on holiday from my kids could have been from anyone too. My letters have never been checked, but maybe I was lucky.

Don't know the situation if you are married or have the same surname as your kids.

Look you need a CAO in place with the courts, this will also enable you to travel where you like with DC for a few weeks with no permission.

Speak to a solicitor.

Sorry OP but the only way to resolve this is legally or for him to sign a letter. Otherwise it's risk in your part he will report you or you get turned away.

It’s not fair it’s controlling. Definitely look into birth certificate I’m sure that will be acceptable

As far as I understand it, you do need permission to take your DC out of the country. We had to do this for DGS when his father refused. The refusing parent needs to have a valid reason however and the reason he has given you won't stand in court. It is expensive to go to court, it's worth mentioning that if the parent refusing is doing it with no good reason, you can ask to be awarded costs. He may give permission when faced with a large court bill?
Also, he is being very cheeky, whilst no permission needs to be forthcoming for a uk holiday, he should have asked if he could have DC for a fortnight.

I don’t share the same surname as my DD. She is of an age that if she was asked who I was, where we were going and what we were doing, she’d be able to tell someone without being prompted. I have nothing to hide.
I do wish at this time I hadn’t said anything as nothing is currently booked. I wish I’d said I intended on taking her away from this date to this date and I’d confirm details once I knew.
It’s been one thing after another and I’m so tired of going back and forth with him when there just isn’t grounds for it.

I feel somewhat reassured that his reasoning behind his refusal wouldn’t stand.
Since our separation I have been incredibly adamant I wasn’t going to go down any legal route as i didn’t see it in the best interests of our child, but unfortunately I think my hands are tied. If I don’t seek proper advice I risk a big fall out and I wouldn’t want my decision to take her on a holiday to negatively impact my child later down the line should we end up in court.

He booked the UK holiday out of spite last year, we weren’t on good terms and his attitude was that I couldn’t stop him. To which I can’t, but I wouldn’t wish to anyway. He’s taking her on holiday. Why would I want to stop my child from having a holiday with her father?