BA Euroflyer

[NotTodayJose]

Just had a message that BA are changing our flights to BA Euroflyer and feeling really worried.

I'm a nervous flyer anyway and choose BA specifically.

Not much info about this new airline but sounds like they are a budget airline using older planes and less experienced crew. Does anyone know more?

Thank you.

I know flying is very low risk but unfortunately phobias don't work well on that rationale. I try to manage mine by picking the safest airline I feel I can (& used to have meds until the NHS helpfully banned them).

There are unfortunately a few publicised incidents where unhappy pilots have brought whole planes down with them. I agree absolute minority incidents but still...

Really? I didn't know that, think I will probably have to reconsider flying at all going forward or maybe Emirates only unless they also swap airlines

Crashing

Then it's safe to say your problem has nothing to do with changing from BA to Euroflyer as the aircraft are the same. The staff are trained the same. It's basically the same.

If it's shifts to avion, again the staff are trained the same (safety critical obviously, they might do service differently)

You probably need to seek some help for your general fear of flying.

@plasticpens @GeraltsBathtub I have spent over a thousand pounds on therapy and the prestigious "BA Fear of Flying Course". Plus hypnotherapy. None have worked, except the hypnotherapy to a slight degree and even that wears off very quickly.

The only thing that ever helped at all was medication but the NHS no longer allows it.

If I didn't love travel so much and not want to stop my family from seeing the world, I would not fly. But needs must.

As it stands- what I can try to control are the airlines I feel a tiny bit safer flying with. Yes, every airline has incidents- I know that. But not every airline has fatal crashes in their recent history, there are plenty of comparison reports on the facts.

You are talking absolute rubbish. I don’t agree with anything the OP is saying but doesn’t mean she doesn’t have the right to discuss it!

As it stands- what I can try to control are the airlines I feel a tiny bit safer flying with.

Right well rest assured BA and BA Euroflyer will offer you the same aircaft and the same crew.

If you do get punted to Avion just get in touch with BA. You don't have to take the flight.

I've tried medication and, as awful as this sounds, the only thing that works for me is having some alcohol in the airport before take off. Challenging for the early flights but takes the edge off my nerves.

You can also connect to the BA shop Wi-Fi (told to me by another nervous passenger) which gives you the tracker with altitude and time to destination. I also play card games with my teenager who doesn't like flying either.

A friend lent me a copy of Face the fear and do it anyway. It's true that it's become more tolerable as I've made myself fly.

You're out of order saying this to op. She is not responsible for other people reactions or feelings.
She has stated a few times she is a nervous flyer, she is looking for reassurance and clarity because she has booked something she feels safe with, and it has now changed to something she knows nothing about.
I'm a very nervous flyer and would probably refuse to fly with an airline I didn't know, but I'm capable of reading the thread and making my own mind up, I'm not a child that needs to be protected from other peoples fears, and I don't think it's your place to speak on my behalf.

^^ Very much this.

FWIW BA do regular and frequent audits of any subsidiaries to ensure standards are maintained.

I certainly would not assume cabin or flight crew at Euroflyer are less experienced or accept lower safety standards than mainline BA.

@NotTodayJose

Should maybe add that the airlines in most parts of the world don’t have a free hand to lower standards - the regulators (e.g. CAA/EASA) have over site.

It’s not unknown for aircraft to arrive somewhere in UK/Europe and be subject to a no notice Ramp Check where inspectors look at the paperwork, state of a selection of safety equipment (life jackets etc), state of the airframe, state of paperwork etc.

Government Inspectors will also often sit in on things like pilots 6 monthly simulator check rides to ensure both the pilots under check are up to standard and also the examiner doing the testing to checking to the required standard.

FWIW I flew for thirty plus years on BA mainline aircraft as crew and I’d have no qualms about getting on a BA Euroflyer aircraft as a passenger… Hope that helps.

@notimagain

I was hoping you would find your way here. I wanted to tag you but could t quite remember your user name. I remember you explaining various flight related things in the past.

That's really reassuring thank you lots. I'm not feeling quite as wobbly about Euroflyer now, just the Avion Express possibility.

@NotTodayJose

Hi again..with regard to Avion Express they are a well established aircraft and crew leasing outfit - a similar type of operation to Titan mentioned upthread.

Nothing sinister in the use of these sorts of operators, they usually get brought in to provide aircraft and crew on short term leases to help the bigger airline plug any gaps in their operations that might occur due to factors likes like crew shortages or them being temporarily short of their own aircraft due to the phasing of maintenance.

From a safety angle since Avion are based in Lithuania they come under the EASA umbrella, so crew, operations, aircraft etc get subject to all the checking mentioned upthread.

I wouldn't have worries about flying on them, but I'd be interested to see how the cabin service worked out....better or worse than BA ???

@plasticpens Thanks for thinking of me... fortunately got the radar fired up and spotted the thread in passing

I used to be an incredibly nervous flyer (I tried to get a cargo ship home from Fiji rather that take the return leg of my flight 🙈) and like you I’ve spent thousands on several fear of flying courses run by airlines, hypnotherapy, and also drugged myself. Weirdly, the most success I’ve had is from the Alan Carr fear of flying book. I read it the night before I fly, and flick through it again once I’m sat in my seat on the plane, and I’ve managed several flights with no tears or meltdowns lately. Just thought it was worth a mention as some of what you say is tackled by him in the book :)

Oh OP, I’m sorry you’re frightened, but commend you for pushing through to go on holiday and travel with your family.

did you know with regards to crashes

• There was a 1 in 3.37 billion chance of dying in a commercial airline plane crash between 2012-2016
• There was a 1 in 20 million chance of being on a commercial airline flight experiencing a fatal accident from 2012-2016
• 98.6% of crashes did not result in a fatality — Of the 140 plane accidents during 2012-2016, only two involved fatalities (1.4%)

meaning “If you took one domestic flight a day, every day of the week, odds are you could go 36,000 years before you’d die in a plane crash.”-Dr. Arnold Barnett, MIT

but those crashes included also include the crashes on the ground into poles/vehicles/overshooting the runway, a wheel popping off. Not all fall from the sky in a ball of flame, so the chances of that are even slimmer!

taken from
https://flyfright.com/statistics/#tab-con-1

Surely lower paid crew = less experienced or at very least, less happy.

If you're wanting to fly with a better paid crew you've made an interesting choice with BA, BA are notorious for how poorly they have treated their staff with the contract changes and how they utilised Covid for it. Surely you've seen how often they strike?!

@ghyt

I was carefully side stepping that specific aspect of the argument since it doesn't effect the specifics of how well crew are trained, but now you've brought it up I'd have to say you're absolutely right.

It's certainly been a heck of long time (i.e. well pre-Covid) since you could safely assume the majority of cabin crew at BA have years and years of experience in the role.

I spoke with BA and they advised that the crew and pilot are BA staff and it is only the plane which is Avion Express. Hope that helps.

Ummmm....

TBH I have to say, putting it very politely, that I find that claim very very surprising.

@Bankholidayboredom23

For clarity I’m not claiming you didn’t speak to somebody in BA, I’m highly sceptical of what you were told.

With Wet least/ACMI you lease in the entire deal, including crew, to avoid all sorts of issues, some of them legal.

There should be one member of BA/Euroflyer crew on each flight. They are there to ensure the service is done correctly and support the Avion crew in achieving this.

That makes more sense to me, thanks for the info.

Just coming on to share my experience of Euroflyer. We flew out to Kos a week ago and flying back later.

You wouldn't notice any difference between the normal BA flights and Euroflyer. Same planes, same BA crew. Overall, a better experience than my last BA flight, they seemed to load the plane more quickly and arrived on time, after being slightly delayed at Gatwick.

I can be a nervous flyer so thought this might help someone not to worry about the change..

I think the concept of a premium brand is in some people's heads. BA has been quietly operating as a budget airline for the last few years. Within the UK at any rate.

As PPs have said the staff all get the same trading on the same aircraft. It really isn't that big a deal.

Thank you for the update. I'm OK with Euroflyer...Avion Express, I'm really not so happy about but so far not had that dreaded email yet so hopefully we'll be with Euroflyer.