To be desperate to go to India?

[malificent7]

I went to Nepal as a teen and was besotted and so am used to the culture/ poverty.
I am now 43 and am desperate to travel to India. We gave 2 teen girls...13/14 and i would love to take them too.
This is more of s tell me your stories of travelling round India but posting here for traffic. Post pandemic...is it safe atm?

Nepal and India are very different places - do you think Goa and Kathmandu are comparable places? Also ignoring the poverty comments how can you say you are used to a culture of a place you visited a lifetime ago as a teen? Why not take your children to Nepal if you are besotted with it? It would be like saying I am besotted with Finland, so naturally I am dying to go to Spain.

I think that stating that you want to travel at this time will receive a mixture of reponses, not least because of COVID.

I would agree with those that say there are huge differences between India and Nepal and huge differences in India. Having said that, generalising based on my 3 week visit to Nepal in 1998 and having spent a total of 4 weeks in India on work trips with a bit of tourism tagged on at the end in 2000 and 2001, I found India really difficult to visit, work and travel in. Much will have changed in 20 years but somehow the class structure, the people who were treated as being invisible, the visible abject poverty alongside the wealth, was all very stark whereas in Nepal and even though I am aware that the GDP per capita in India is almost three times more than that of Nepal, somehow it was less difficult to observe. Tourism brings it's own challenges.. are we helping or hindering. I don't know the answers.. I just now that I found Nepal a much easier place to travel in, both from a feeling of safety, feeling welcome and not being shocked every day by human suffering. I enjoyed all three of my trips - but I have no desire to go back to India, even with 20 years distance and the veil of romanticism.

@littleblackno

I spent some time travelling around India about 20 years ago. Not a chance in hell I'd take my teenage daughters. I was groped, flashed at and generally sexually harassed literally everywhere we went. I was travelling with my boyfriend at the time. I think you have some romantic view of India which isn't a reality at all. A 2 week holiday in goa would be great- but be aware of the men who come to stare at the white women in their bikinis.

My mum went to Nepal 3 years ago after going 20 years previously and came back early as she said it had changed beyond all recognition and the pollution and poverty was heart breaking.
Do your research, especially if you are going with young girls.

I am from India and have the same experience. Please remember that with girls you cannot "slum it". What people living in western society don't have experience of is paying for security i.e. here whether you travel first class or normal class, you guaranteed the same level of safety and security; it's just the level of comfort that changes. But in India that's not the case. When travelling with women and girls, you must pay for higher class travel and eat at higher end restaurants and stay at higher end hotels and travel in higher end rent cars/taxis literally for their safety so that they are not groped, molested and sexually assaulted. I feel extremely bad to say this but white women are seen by lecherous men as sexually available. You literally pay for safety by choosing higher end options and even then it's not guaranteed. So please think and plan through before travelling as a woman with teenage girls. I say this as a young girl who grew up in India very affluent and then as a teenager decided to rebel and travel as "the poor" when reality hit me and then went back to my "affluent ways" for self preservation. It's the same situation now; my family and friends also have had and are having the same experience.

People are rude, ignore them OP.

My friend is from Northern India and is with family at the moment. COVID had hit hard across India, including where they are, although the impact is not as bad as earlier variants. They did say that travel in their relatively affluent area was ok but there was obvious extra hardship and suffering in poorer areas. I would still wait a while before you go to give some of these hard hit areas chance to recover a bit. The school holidays are in monsoon season anyway, so maybe plan for a trip over half term or the Christmas holidays.

Summer holidays that should say

I wouldn't be in a rush to go back and I definitely wouldn't be taking 2 teenage girls there.

@Oblomov22

Can't believe I'm reading this. My boss just went to India recently to deal with his fathers passing and the estate. Got covid out there, was so ill, so was delayed returning, has only just been allowed to return to the UK and is still very unwell.

What's this got to do with the OP?

@SugarAndSpiceIsNice I have also heard about the behaviour of men. A friend of my husbands went travelling with his wife - they had a long train journey together and he couldn't go to sleep because the one time he closed his eyes, men started to try and grope his wife.

I think the level of hassle between Nepal and India are not comparable. I wouldn't take teenage girls. I would go Sri Lanka instead, or Thailand, Malaysia, Cambodia, Laos - so many beautiful Asian countries that will be easier for your daughters first experience of Asia. You may think you're ready for the level of poverty in India but what about your children?

Depends on how you travel. If you’re desperate to go, don’t have much time and want to avoid hassle, you can do a group trip and things will be MUCH easier for you. Is it the same as doing it for yourself? Of course not, but I did it on my one and only trip to India to date and have the amazing memories and impressions whilst having a very easy holiday.

Went to Sri Lanka independently and was groped unfortunately. Not that it put me off that country in general (possibly my favourite place to visit), but it highlights how you can choose your travel experience to a great extent.

Just wanted to say I was not groped once over three weeks in Kerala some years ago. I loved it there.

I went on two group tours of India just before Covid. I wouldn’t dream of doing it independently especially with teenagers. I think the poverty is much worse than you remember and might be a bit much for two young girls. We had an amazing time but were well aware that we were being protected. Even in a very quiet town we were followed by a security guard from the hotel when I wanted to go for a walk and take photographs. The tour manager took a group of us in a coach to use an ATM and stood guard over us. I think Shimla and Cochin were the only places where we could safely go shopping on our own. Unfortunately, women are highly vulnerable in India. I suspect you are imagining the India of the 60s and 70s when it was safe for Westerners to go backpacking.

[quote girafferafferaffe]@SugarAndSpiceIsNice I have also heard about the behaviour of men. A friend of my husbands went travelling with his wife - they had a long train journey together and he couldn't go to sleep because the one time he closed his eyes, men started to try and grope his wife. [/quote]
It's really awful for women in India.
However the more affluent you are, the less of this behaviour you face simply because you cut out the sheer number of people who can use premium facilities and so there is better order and control. Also the facilities that are used by the more affluent are likely to be safer as the ones who use them are more likely to be educated and so less likely to display crude criminal behaviour (again a contrast with western society where affluence and education are not strictly correlated).
As a women travelling with young girls, she must pay for premium, higher end services not for comfort but for safety. I know I sound horrible as basically what I'm saying is that the poorer people who cannot afford the safety are left in the clutches of a society which makes daily living a hell for women. But it's a dog eats dog world over there and you do whatever you can to preserve yourself and your family and then think about others if you have the mental space to do so.
Also, avoid long distance trains where possible. Flying is a much safer option.
If you must use trains, opt for air conditioned two tier trains.
However for sightseeing in India, the best option is to go through a reputable tour company as they will take care of your safety and all the associated logistics to ensure your safety.
I'm not trying to scare anyone from travelling to India. India is a beautiful and magical country. It's just that women who are used to the levels of safety and security in the west are very naive and are not able to pick up cues which spell out danger in a society as complex as India. It's a part of daily life of women who live there and they know how to deal with it and what to do to avoid it. But those women who have newly arrived in India will not be aware and fall straight into the trap of these dangerous men.

@mdh2020

I went on two group tours of India just before Covid. I wouldn’t dream of doing it independently especially with teenagers. I think the poverty is much worse than you remember and might be a bit much for two young girls. We had an amazing time but were well aware that we were being protected. Even in a very quiet town we were followed by a security guard from the hotel when I wanted to go for a walk and take photographs. The tour manager took a group of us in a coach to use an ATM and stood guard over us. I think Shimla and Cochin were the only places where we could safely go shopping on our own. Unfortunately, women are highly vulnerable in India. I suspect you are imagining the India of the 60s and 70s when it was safe for Westerners to go backpacking.

I disagree with this, and would take my children. Westerners travelling like this poster is weird and pointless: the only people you meet are in your pay. Local women have to walk down the street and use the atm independently. We travelled independently in Sri Lanka (bus, train) with kids when they were small and they played with Sri Lankan kids. If I took my kids to India now I would want them to meet children their age.

I wouldn't bother if we were going to be cocooned in tour buses and hotels.

I am Indian and was born in Bangalore though have lived most of my time in the UK. I agree that any woman travelling in India should take some basic precautions. In particular do not travel alone, organise drivers via reputable hotels or tour guides and be careful with your drinks if you go out. I have to say though I do not recognise the entirety of Indian society as being wholly misogynistic. From my experience, particularly in fast growing urban areas, women are playing an increasingly prominent role in business and public life and there is a very active feminist movement. There is much to do for sure, but some of this thread feels far to much of a country stereotype.

As a western expat who lived in India (not Mumbai or Delhi but visited often due to work) I would echo the advice given to have a tour guide or take a planned guided tour with a good company. Do not do it on your own esp with 2 girls.

I was subjected to hassle, shouted and stared at, gestured to and men wanting to touch me and get very close to take selfies. I pushed shouted and yes swore at people to leave me alone, I did not invite any interaction with anybody and dressed very modestly, but still even with other male company I was with it still happened. I have a lot of tales of experiences from other expats as well. I am well travelled and have lived in other countries in Asia but the hassle in India at times wore me down.

You say your used to the culture/poverty, I beg to differ unless you lived there as a local for some time and not a visit on holiday donkeys years ago. Take note of the excellent advice give regarding staying in more upmarket hotels and areas etc.

@littleblackno

I spent some time travelling around India about 20 years ago. Not a chance in hell I'd take my teenage daughters. I was groped, flashed at and generally sexually harassed literally everywhere we went. I was travelling with my boyfriend at the time. I think you have some romantic view of India which isn't a reality at all. A 2 week holiday in goa would be great- but be aware of the men who come to stare at the white women in their bikinis.

My mum went to Nepal 3 years ago after going 20 years previously and came back early as she said it had changed beyond all recognition and the pollution and poverty was heart breaking.
Do your research, especially if you are going with young girls.

A lady I cleaned for came back from Goa saying "All my friends told me I should go there. I'm really upset, I thought my friends liked me!" Being with her husband did not stop the constant harassment from men, including openly taking photos of her.

@ExpatExpectations

As a western expat who lived in India (not Mumbai or Delhi but visited often due to work) I would echo the advice given to have a tour guide or take a planned guided tour with a good company. Do not do it on your own esp with 2 girls.

I was subjected to hassle, shouted and stared at, gestured to and men wanting to touch me and get very close to take selfies. I pushed shouted and yes swore at people to leave me alone, I did not invite any interaction with anybody and dressed very modestly, but still even with other male company I was with it still happened. I have a lot of tales of experiences from other expats as well. I am well travelled and have lived in other countries in Asia but the hassle in India at times wore me down.

You say your used to the culture/poverty, I beg to differ unless you lived there as a local for some time and not a visit on holiday donkeys years ago. Take note of the excellent advice give regarding staying in more upmarket hotels and areas etc.

All of this I’m afraid. I went twice about 15 years ago and will not go back. I am a seasoned traveller who has done some real backwaters but the attitude of men to women is appalling and is there to see in your daily interactions all day long. It’s tiring, exhausting and it doesn’t matter what you do, they won’t fuck off. I definitely wouldn’t recommend with teenage girls (or even just for you). Cannot neg it enough!

It's quite a while since I went to India so it sounds as though it's got a bit worse since I went. I did find it full on in a lot of places even with a tour guide with us but I didn't get much in the way of sexual harassment it was more trying to sell us stuff all the time. However my DH is ethnically Indian so I don't know if that made a difference, I may have been less of a target because of him.

The most relaxed place was Kerala (where DH's family originate) and I would happily go there again.

To add to what a pp has said, we went a few years ago pre covid on an organised tour it was pre kids but there were a few families with teens in our tour group. I'd do that rather than ad hoc and I'm a fairly seasoned traveller

Last time I went to India the begging children kept pinching me on the vagina vulva to get my attention. It's heartbreaking, but there are zillions of them and all the organised beggars. It's not something I could be in love with.

Also one tried to steal my handbag containing my passport just out the Taj Mahal. I grabbed him by his shirt as he ran under my table and the cafe owner came over and beat him with a broom. It was hideous.

I'm glad I didn't read this thread before going to India, it would have put me off completely! I had a different experience to some ppl here. I went for 4 weeks right before Covid hit. Traveled around Northern India with my family, 3 women and my dad and 9yo nephew. We did it all ourselves, no tour and had an amazing time. Never once did I feel unsafe, never had an issue with a language barrier. I wouldnt say we luxuried it up but we did have a private driver for a couple of days (delhi/agra/jaipur) and his knowledge and connections helped us for the rest of the trip. OP, just do your research and be sensible.

I spent a few months travelling alone through India and Nepal in 2019. It was absolutely incredible. I can't wait to go back when DS is older.

I would live to visit India but know I will never be able to afford it.

Went aged 39 for 3 months on my own. Met and shagged loads of people. Amazing time!
Felt quite safe. A few dodgy incidents but other people (eg on the long train journeys) helped look after me.
The poverty is hard to deal with.
I give a percentage of my salary now to charity including to ones in India.