B&B want me to pay £150 fine!

[froggy1811]

So, this might be a longish read, but please bear with me! Recently my husband and I went to stay at a pub B&B. It is not often that we would ever be in a financial position to do this; however, we love the area and decided to treat ourselves. Anyway, when we arrived we didn't exactly receive the warm welcome that we were hoping for! I thought that perhaps I was imagining things; however, I received a message this morning from Booking.Com demanding that I pay £150 to the B&B for not following their policies. They have stated that this is because my husband smoked a cigarette in the room (please don't all shout at me at once! 😱) BUT, in his defence, he did this hanging out of the window at 2am and disposed of the dimp discreetly - so the only way I can imagine that they knew, is if someone from across the road of where we were staying, saw him and told the landlord!

To be honest, the attitude of the owners was absolutely dreadful from the moment we arrived! And I got the distinct impression that they didn't like us straight away! I shall list some of my points below:

1: Upon arrival we were told that if we wanted a table for dinner, we should have pre-booked. Our fault entirely, but it was the irritable way it was said to us.

2: My husband ordered several half pint ales at the same time, so that he could try them and decide which one he wished to drink for the night. Unfortunately, the idiot forgot which one was which, but as his drinks was still relatively full he asked the landlord which he thought was which based on the liquids colour. The landlords response was extremely cold and scratchy! He made it plain my husband was a fool in his eyes, and then he just stomped off without trying to assist him.

3: Over the course of the night, I had ordered 2 bottles of Prosecco (although, the second bottle didn't actually get drunk, as I couldn't manage any more!) So, it was taken up to our room.

4: We had booked a King room, but this was actually a really cramped, small double , and my husband's legs hung over the end of the bed. Shower and sink only a few inches apart so if you opened the door it hit the sink, and there was zero room to dress in there! The toilet seat was also wonky.

5: Room wasn't the cleanest, and no option to pay extra for a later check out.

6: When my husband went down for the breakfast, the landlord made reference to the amount of Prosecco I had drank the night before! This is despite the fact that we sat quietly at a table all night and was not in any way 'loud' or rowdy! So why mention this?!

7: WiFi didn't work all night long.

I know my husband shouldn't have smoked out of the window, but I have a suspicion that they just didn't like us from the moment we arrived. I had expressed this concern to my husband, who just brushed it off. We were quiet guests who made sure the room was spotlessly immaculate before we left, so I just genuinely feel like they were looking for issues!

Would you pay this? Do you think AIBU?

It is not a fine. The hotel/website have no legal authority to impose a fine, which is a criminal sanction to deter further criminality.
It is a claim for damages (or compensation) to put the hotel in the position it would have been in had you not smoked in the room. Eg the cost to the hotel of cleaning the room to clear it of smoke for the next guest and/or leaving it unoccupied for a number of nights until the smell cleared.

I am an asthmatic & smoking does affect me & cigarette smoke lingers -if he wanted to smoke he should have gone outside &worn a coat - as for the alcohol? it sounds an odd excuse to me

@PyongyangKipperbang

How many more times.......IT WAS NOT ILLEGAL!!! Antisocial, yes. Selfish, yes. Stupid, yes. Illegal? NO!

It was against the rules of the house, which could have led them to being kicked out at any time but he did not break the sodding law. Trust me on this ok?!

Asmoking ban in England, making it illegal tosmokein all enclosed work places inEngland, came into force on 1 July 2007 as a consequence of theHealth Act 2006

Exemptions from the law

While the ban affects almost all indoor workplaces,[10]some exemptions were provided:[11]

designated hotel rooms

Chapter 1 - Smoke-free premises, places and vehiclesEdit

Main article:Smoking ban in England

The Act is best known for having introduced provisions for the creation of aban on smokingin enclosed public places. This ban focuses on smoking:

In places of work.In places that the public access to obtaingoodsandservices, including private clubs.In other places designated byStatutory Instrument.

But if it WASN'T a designated smoking hotel room, is that illegal or not?

@Bluntness100

This is the thread that keeps on giving,

It’s went from I had two bottles of Prosecco and my husband was lining up the beers, hanging out the window at 2 am smoking and the landlord was a bit irritated we hadn’t booked for dinner but kindly fitted us in, and made a crack thay I’d not made it to breakfast due to the amount I’d drunk the night before to,,

I’ve never had such shoddy treatment in a hotel in my LiIFE! we were both sober, we were the perfect guests, it was an awful place, we had an awful time, they didn’t want us there, it was cliquey and horrific!

Aye. We believe you.😂😂😂

And I never HAVE received such shoddy treatment in a hotel during my lifetime! So what exactly is your point?

Also, when did I ever use the words "perfect guests"? Talk about twisting my words! It was indeed an awful place and we did indeed have an awful time, largely due to the rude behaviour of the landlord and the crappy room that was falsely advertised on Booking.com!

I'm really not concerned with whether or not you believe me to be honest!

[quote ImInStealthMode]@TheClockTicker A bottle of Prosecco is 6 x 125ml glasses, or 9 units. At the point the landlord made the comment about it (the tone of which we were not witness to) he wasn't to know she hadn't drunk the one she took back to the room.

I'm not a shy drinker by any means but even I'd be a bit aghast at 2 entire bottles / 18 units for one person in one night. [/quote]
To be honest as the husband went to breakfast on his own, I imagine it was a jokey comment about why the op wasn’t able to make it down, Ie she’d done two bottles of Prosecco and was feeling the worse for wear. I very much doubt he roared up the the table and got all judgey about the ops boozy night.

Op, in all seriousness it sounds like you both had a great night, you went out got pissed, were drinking heavily and Inc in the room, were still up at 2 am, and because you’ve been fined for him smoking in the room,you’re now looking for ways of justify not paying it and have gone over the top, now declaring it the worst night of your life etc, and declaring yourselves Paragons of good virtue and sobriety, staying in a dirty shithole, who were abused by a nasty landlord and locals with pitch forks,

Don’t pay the fine, it’s your call, likely you will just be banned, in reality though the fine for smoking in the room will have been in the terms and your husband did indeed smoke in the room. Everything else is just nonsense to justify why you shouldn’t pay.

If it was illegal it is still not within the power of the hotel or the website to impose a fine. They can only claim damages.

Also, one bottle of Prosecco consumed over the course of a meal and a few hours is really not that excessive, as an ex pub manager on here very rightly pointed out! Nor are 3 half pints! For the record, my DH then went on to drink another 2 pints.

One bottle of prosecco at 9% is 12 units. It is too much for one person, although so many people will consume that in a night that they'll deny it's problematic. Three halves of beer is neither here nor there, it's ordering them all at once when tasters would have been the better option, but then you've subsequently said it wasn't an option.

As PP have said, there's a lot of mixed things in the OP. Key thing is your DH smoked when he shouldn't have done. The things which were poor service should have been brought up at the time. Some of the rest isn't poor service, it's on you.

The LL sounds like a lot of pub landlords in the rural area I'm in. Relies on incomers as well as locals, but really doesn't like the incomers. Generally it's best to see it as part of the strange, rural charm and stick to their rules, before fleeing back to the city.

I am imagining you in a jewel-coloured dress, with a Sad Face, OP. You could really go to town on the great unfairness of being fined because your husband was smoking in a non-smoking room. Readers would surely agree that the landlord was completely unreasonable, and that one person could get through an entire bottle of Prosecco without being in the slightest bit affected by it.

People would've been able to smell it regardless of hanging out of the window. You can smell it in the hall and if a neighbour has their windows open it'll have gone into their room. I stay in hotels frequently and I don't care if people smoke but I do get pissed off with people who think rules aren't for them and light up making me have to close my window because it stinks.

You're lucky it was £150 op!

@Happymum12345

I wouldn’t pay it. What evidence do they have? It can’t smell that bad after 1 cigarette smoked outside the window. Air the room, clean sheets etc- they’re making a point.

Are you a smoker ? It would smell bad after one cigarette.

@MaggieFS

But if it WASN'T a designated smoking hotel room, is that illegal or not?

While the ban affects almost all indoor workplaces, some exemptions were provided: designated hotel rooms

You can still smoke in a smoking room, but its against the law to smoke in a non smoking room (is what I read)

@BreadInCaptivity

Hotels have to have exemptions for smoking rooms and it is clear if they have them or not.

Not in the U.K. they don't.

It's illegal to smoke in the workplace and a hotel/B&B/pub is a workplace.

There are no exemptions.

While the ban affects almost all indoor workplaces, some exemptions were provided: designated hotel rooms

Actually there are exemptions to the Act

I hate smoke and can always smell
It, but If your husband is a smoker then then smell would be on the bed and curtains and stuff just from him
Sleeping in there.

I think the B&b will have a hard time enforcing the fine/ extra cleaning bill unless they can prove he actually smoked jn the room/ out the window.

I’d just stop digging OP, everyone thinks you need to pay the fine and the more you post the worse you come across

@HeartvsBrain Thank you!

This is brilliant! So many valid points composed here!

Of course DH should NOT have had that sneaky cigarette; BUT nor should the rude proprietor be treating paying guests in this manner - way before the said incident had even occurred!

So many people here accusing me of using their bad customer service skills and false advertising as an "excuse" what DH did, when this is definitely not the case! I returned home on Sunday and have been telling people how badly we were treated; however, it was only yesterday morning that I received the email demanding the £150!

So, if the room was left in such a dreadful state, then why did it take them until Tuesday to mention it?

[quote froggy1811]@HeartvsBrain Thank you!

This is brilliant! So many valid points composed here!

Of course DH should NOT have had that sneaky cigarette; BUT nor should the rude proprietor be treating paying guests in this manner - way before the said incident had even occurred!

So many people here accusing me of using their bad customer service skills and false advertising as an "excuse" what DH did, when this is definitely not the case! I returned home on Sunday and have been telling people how badly we were treated; however, it was only yesterday morning that I received the email demanding the £150!

So, if the room was left in such a dreadful state, then why did it take them until Tuesday to mention it?[/quote]
So, if the room was left in such a dreadful state, then why did it take them until Tuesday to mention it?
Maybe their house manager/admin person was off or busy until

"Dear Mr ...........

I very sorry that you are under the impression that someone smoked in our room overnight. My husband is a smoker, so I think it is quite likely that his hair, body, and clothes left a smell of smoke in the room. As a non-smoker myself I know that before I met my DH, but met up with people who were smokers, I always had to have a shower straight away when I got home, and put my clothes straight into the wash, as both I and my clothes would stink of the horrible smoke, and I didn't want to transfer it to my furniture and linen.
so lie??? we all know he had a cigarette inside - what's the phrase thats so popular here? Gaslighting

I think that you need to not allow smokers into your establishment at all, not just insist that they don't smoke inside it. Otherwise you will inevitably blame innocent people of smoking when they haven't.
add more lying? more Gaslighting

I now regrettably have to give you my invoice for a very unpleasant stay in an establishment that did not advertise it's rooms honestly. When I booked my husband's and my room, it was advertised as being a luxury Kingsize, but it was not. The bed was not a Kingsize bed, the room was certainly not of the size or standard of a luxury Kingsize room. I also do not understand how you could consider the en-suite as anything more than a cupboard. The toilet, shower and sink were so squeezed in, that had I wished to disrobe in there I could not have managed it, unless I was a contortionist, which sadly I am not. My husband could not get comfortable in the bed overnight as it was not big enough for him.
you should have complained at the time - if it was my business I would say "well we had a bigger room on offer (suite or whatever) however as we are lacking in a time machine, we are unable to rectify this

Even though we mainly had a miserable stay - I will remind you of our treatment at your hands soon - I did not complain at the time as life throws us these curve balls, and I didn't want to cause myself any more stress than I had already been through with you. Also, being aware that we have all as a country, in fact as a world, been through a horrendous time in the last 18 to 20 months, I was trying to give your terrible attitude towards both me and my husband the benefit of the doubt. I now see that I should not have given you such a leeway, as you are a professional business man who relies on the general public for your service industry business to survive. So, at the very least you should be pleasant and polite to all your customers, or at least until they are rude to you. You were not at all pleasant or polite to us...."
I'm sorry if you felt this way, had you mentioned at the time, we would have done xyz to make your stay more comfortable however, see the point above about the time machine

Jeez. Grow up op. He smoked when he shouldn’t have. Pay up

@BonesInTheOcean They wouldn't have offered us alternative accommodation, because there were only a few rooms and all were occupied. Ours was the tiniest room (which I know because there was a building map attached to the bedroom door.)

They had no problem lying in their adverts for the room - so why is this acceptable, just because it was the proprietor who told the lies? Even in their response to another customer who raised the same issue on Booking.com they admitted that the advertisement of a "Deluxe King Room" was not accurate - but they blamed booking.com for this! In fact, reading through the reviews, they have gaslighted every single customer who has reported the negatives! And as a recent guest, I can confirm that all the negative reviews are based on truth!

And just to add to that, they would not have helped us with any issues that we had complained about, because they wasn't even prepared to show basic courtesy, or answer questions that were asked.

They have poor reviews for a reason - regardless of whether or not my husband had a cigarette.

OP it wouldn’t matter if they had slapped you with a wet fish. Your DH smoked in a non smoking room, you need to pay the fine, end of.

OP mumsnet, as you can see has plenty of arseholes with an opinion, but meanwhile in the real life, most people understand that booking for a night in a hotel that you pay for is supposed to be a treat, not an ordeal where you are tutted at or feel judged or not get the room you pay for.
Im not a smoker and i dont like the smell, but if your dp did hang out of the window to smoke and was careful then i cant imagine that its going to need anything more than an airing amd some febreze.
If youd partied or smoked in the room all night then id suck up the fine, but I dont know a single person that would cough up this fine in real life, especially after such shoddy service.
Just ignore it. They have no proof and theyre trying it on.
Im sorry your special date was ruined by the crap hotel. Its disheartening and upsetting, especially when it is a rare treat

@Branleuse

OP mumsnet, as you can see has plenty of arseholes with an opinion, but meanwhile in the real life, most people understand that booking for a night in a hotel that you pay for is supposed to be a treat, not an ordeal where you are tutted at or feel judged or not get the room you pay for. Im not a smoker and i dont like the smell, but if your dp did hang out of the window to smoke and was careful then i cant imagine that its going to need anything more than an airing amd some febreze. If youd partied or smoked in the room all night then id suck up the fine, but I dont know a single person that would cough up this fine in real life, especially after such shoddy service. Just ignore it. They have no proof and theyre trying it on. Im sorry your special date was ruined by the crap hotel. Its disheartening and upsetting, especially when it is a rare treat

Thank you!

As I have recently discovered, there are a lot of self righteous, hypocritical bullies on Mumsnet, and thus, I am not going to let them upset me with their aspersions! I've been accused of everything here, from being a scumbag to an alcoholic with no morals! These people need to get a grip!

I shall not be paying the £150 A: Because I don't think this is a fair charge for one cigarette smoked out of a window the previous night, and B: Because I don't actually have that money available if I'm honest!

DH and I saved up for this so called 'break'; we paid a lot of money (sorry to the other posters who find it disgusting that I'm not rich!) But essentially, we paid them to be made to feel uncomfortable and to sleep in the crappiest room they had to offer - which in no way reflected what they had advertised!

Again, thank you for this comment! ❤️

So if you had been welcomed with open arms, treated like royalty and had a palatial sized room, would you still be disputing the extra charge for smoking in a non-smoking room.

No smoking means exactly that - not, "smoking is OK if you hang out of the window". So it was cold/wet/snowy outside and was a bit of a trek. Boo hoo. Suck it up and bloody well go outside.

And yes, I am a smoker. If I smoked in a non-smoking room I would expect to be charged extra, regardless of my opinion on the rest of the stay.