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B&B want me to pay £150 fine!

453 replies

froggy1811 · 30/11/2021 20:32

So, this might be a longish read, but please bear with me! Recently my husband and I went to stay at a pub B&B. It is not often that we would ever be in a financial position to do this; however, we love the area and decided to treat ourselves. Anyway, when we arrived we didn't exactly receive the warm welcome that we were hoping for! I thought that perhaps I was imagining things; however, I received a message this morning from Booking.Com demanding that I pay £150 to the B&B for not following their policies. They have stated that this is because my husband smoked a cigarette in the room (please don't all shout at me at once! 😱) BUT, in his defence, he did this hanging out of the window at 2am and disposed of the dimp discreetly - so the only way I can imagine that they knew, is if someone from across the road of where we were staying, saw him and told the landlord!

To be honest, the attitude of the owners was absolutely dreadful from the moment we arrived! And I got the distinct impression that they didn't like us straight away! I shall list some of my points below:

1: Upon arrival we were told that if we wanted a table for dinner, we should have pre-booked. Our fault entirely, but it was the irritable way it was said to us.

2: My husband ordered several half pint ales at the same time, so that he could try them and decide which one he wished to drink for the night. Unfortunately, the idiot forgot which one was which, but as his drinks was still relatively full he asked the landlord which he thought was which based on the liquids colour. The landlords response was extremely cold and scratchy! He made it plain my husband was a fool in his eyes, and then he just stomped off without trying to assist him.

3: Over the course of the night, I had ordered 2 bottles of Prosecco (although, the second bottle didn't actually get drunk, as I couldn't manage any more!) So, it was taken up to our room.

4: We had booked a King room, but this was actually a really cramped, small double , and my husband's legs hung over the end of the bed. Shower and sink only a few inches apart so if you opened the door it hit the sink, and there was zero room to dress in there! The toilet seat was also wonky.

5: Room wasn't the cleanest, and no option to pay extra for a later check out.

6: When my husband went down for the breakfast, the landlord made reference to the amount of Prosecco I had drank the night before! This is despite the fact that we sat quietly at a table all night and was not in any way 'loud' or rowdy! So why mention this?!

7: WiFi didn't work all night long.

I know my husband shouldn't have smoked out of the window, but I have a suspicion that they just didn't like us from the moment we arrived. I had expressed this concern to my husband, who just brushed it off. We were quiet guests who made sure the room was spotlessly immaculate before we left, so I just genuinely feel like they were looking for issues!

Would you pay this? Do you think AIBU?

OP posts:
TheClockTicker · 01/12/2021 04:17

we ordered two bottles of Prosecco and several half pints, then like a lot of the other judgemental Mumsnetters, you need to get a grip! People order alcohol and drink in pubs!

I noted this too! Grin

Shock horror, pubs sell booze! And do you know what is even more shocking? People go in, and buy it! Shock

Fivemoreminutes1 · 01/12/2021 04:39

If it was Ok to hang out the window and smoke, the smoking policy would say ‘No smoking in the room please, unless you’re upper body is stuck out the window’. Pay up

froggy1811 · 01/12/2021 04:44

@TheClockTicker

we ordered two bottles of Prosecco and several half pints, then like a lot of the other judgemental Mumsnetters, you need to get a grip! People order alcohol and drink in pubs!

I noted this too! Grin

Shock horror, pubs sell booze! And do you know what is even more shocking? People go in, and buy it! Shock

😂🤣😂 And as I pointed out earlier, it is completely at the discretion of the barmaid/man, landlord etc. to refuse sale to anyone that they suspect is overly intoxicated. And seeing as how the staff were happy to take our money, they can't have thought we were that drunk!

Unbelievable that people are saying 2 bottles of Prosecco and a few half pints is excessive for an entire evening out!

OP posts:
EdgeOfTheSky · 01/12/2021 05:40

OP, I have no legal knowledge whatsoever, but I suspect that if they wish to charge they would have to state that breaking policy will incur a charge to put things right, and that the charge needs to be proportionate, I.e reflect the actual cost of extra cleaning etc.

A pub can’t ‘fine’ you, or impose a punishment as if they were a court.

It does sound as if they were snotty and unwelcoming.

Whywonttheyletmeusemyusername · 01/12/2021 05:41

This thread is hilarious 🤣 OP, tell them to stick the fine up their judgemental backsides, go and buy as many bloody bottles of prosecco as you like, and get DH some fags whilst you're there. Then pat yourselves on the back for standing up to the awful B+B owners. They sound diabolical.

Borracha · 01/12/2021 05:52

Sorry you had a disappointing experience.

But ultimately, you broke the rules so you should pay the fine. The other stuff isn’t really relevant.

THisbackwithavengeance · 01/12/2021 06:33

Lots of snobby comments on here. Some people should really have a word with themselves.

Of course you shouldn't pay a fine. I love the way people on MN are acting like these landlords are judges in an actual court of law as if you are legally obliged to hand over £150 on their say so. Did you sign something to say you agreed to hand over £150 if you breached rules? More importantly, can they actually prove beyond reasonable doubt that your DH smoked out the window. Even if he had gone outside to smoke, the smell would still be on him when he entered the room and could transfer to bedding etc. I wouldn't even dignify it with a reply. If they have your card details, contact your bank to block any further transaction as unauthorised. I'd close or empty my bank account before paying £150 to these shitty people. It sounds like you already handed over plenty of your hard earned cash already, your drinks bill must've been massive. They should be thanking you, that's how these places make money from their mark up on booze.

Unfortunately many private hoteliers consider that they are doing you a favour by letting you pay to sleep, eat and drink in their establishment, you only have to read the airb&b threads on here. Your main error was not walking out the minute the host was rude to you.

Next time, book a chain hotel. Far less aggro.

liveforsummer · 01/12/2021 06:33

A lot of these things you could/should have addressed at the time. Absolutely pointless to bring them up in this argument. The small bed, dirty room and lack of WiFi are all things that could have been resolved and aren't relevant to your issue of the fine.

The coat of the hotel isn't relevant either. The loss of the rent of the room the next day isn't the only potential cost incurred. The landlord then needs to think about extra cleaning costs and the loss of revenue from booked guests eating and drinking if there isn't a replacement room for them.

DC's dad smokes out of the window when dc aren't there but goes outside when they are. I have to wash everything when they come home as it reeks as does their hair and skin. It's amazing how much smoke clings and spreads around a room

CandidaAlbicans2 · 01/12/2021 06:37

@froggy1811, obviously, without being there, I can't comment on whether the room smells of smoke, requires deep cleaning and therefore warrants the £150 fine. What I will say though is that you would be totally within your rights to write a negative review stating all the things you put in your OP, especially as other guests have had similar experiences to you. Apart from the naughty fag out the window bit, there's nothing to suggest, from what you've written, that you're a "nightmare guest". The landlord had issues before you even got to your room by the sound of it.

TheClockTicker · 01/12/2021 06:52

@THisbackwithavengeance

Lots of snobby comments on here. Some people should really have a word with themselves.

Of course you shouldn't pay a fine. I love the way people on MN are acting like these landlords are judges in an actual court of law as if you are legally obliged to hand over £150 on their say so. Did you sign something to say you agreed to hand over £150 if you breached rules? More importantly, can they actually prove beyond reasonable doubt that your DH smoked out the window. Even if he had gone outside to smoke, the smell would still be on him when he entered the room and could transfer to bedding etc. I wouldn't even dignify it with a reply. If they have your card details, contact your bank to block any further transaction as unauthorised. I'd close or empty my bank account before paying £150 to these shitty people. It sounds like you already handed over plenty of your hard earned cash already, your drinks bill must've been massive. They should be thanking you, that's how these places make money from their mark up on booze.

Unfortunately many private hoteliers consider that they are doing you a favour by letting you pay to sleep, eat and drink in their establishment, you only have to read the airb&b threads on here. Your main error was not walking out the minute the host was rude to you.

Next time, book a chain hotel. Far less aggro.

This is what I find too (the last paragraph).

Last time we went away, I nearly booked a chain hotel just because It's less anxiety-inducing, you know exactly what you'll get and they're sort of 'anonymous' too, you don't feel as if you're encroaching. Luckily I found a lovely Inn where the staff were great.

Of course, a lot of lovely Inn/B&B owners don't and won't make you feel that way either but Its such a risk, and It's especially nasty when you've booked yourself a little holiday time. I hate it, and It's happened once too many to me. Hence I am SO careful now. I pore over read tripadvisor reviews until I am certain somewhere isn't like this.

And it doesn't seem to be dependent on price either. I've stayed in some expensive places that make you feel like your best friends the moment you walk in, and cheap places where the owners speak to you like they feel you should be kissing their feet for the privilege of paying to stay there, and vice versa!

TheClockTicker · 01/12/2021 06:53

YOU'RE best friends :)

TheClockTicker · 01/12/2021 06:57

@liveforsummer

A lot of these things you could/should have addressed at the time. Absolutely pointless to bring them up in this argument. The small bed, dirty room and lack of WiFi are all things that could have been resolved and aren't relevant to your issue of the fine.

The coat of the hotel isn't relevant either. The loss of the rent of the room the next day isn't the only potential cost incurred. The landlord then needs to think about extra cleaning costs and the loss of revenue from booked guests eating and drinking if there isn't a replacement room for them.

DC's dad smokes out of the window when dc aren't there but goes outside when they are. I have to wash everything when they come home as it reeks as does their hair and skin. It's amazing how much smoke clings and spreads around a room

It depends though doesn't it-a lot of places aren't fully operational due to covid, especially rural ones. I would think It's quite doubtful the OP would be able to find somewhere else to stay that wasn't miles and miles away. What could she do 'Sorry but don't speak to me like that' 'Okay get out then'.. Trip away totally ruined?

'Our room's too small'
'Okay we'll refund' (Op and husb sleep in car)?

Wifi can't really get resolved either, if It's crap, It's crap.

If cigarette smoke carries in on your DC's Dads' clothes It's feasible it could carry in on OPs husbands too even if he had gone outside.

SimpsonsXmasBoogie · 01/12/2021 07:09

That room will have stank of smoke, even if he was hanging out of the window. You just couldn't tell because you're used to it.

HeartvsBrain · 01/12/2021 07:34

Sorry OP for only reading the whole of the first page, I couldn't stomach the harassment that you were getting from most of the pp's, so I have only read your replys all the way through. Please read mine to the end if you can face the length of it, as I am afraid that it will be very long!

I do think that you (your DH) should be fined for smoking in the room, but I also think that an establishment should have to have it written down in every bedroom what the fine is for breaking the law about smoking inside a commercial establishment. I don't know if owners can set their own charge according to what costs are involved, or even if the only way to legally fine you is for them to apply to a court, and a judge decide what you must pay. I presume that this landlord would not wish to go down that particular route.

My reaction to his demand for you to pay a £150 fine would be something like this:

"Dear Mr ...........

I very sorry that you are under the impression that someone smoked in our room overnight. My husband is a smoker, so I think it is quite likely that his hair, body, and clothes left a smell of smoke in the room. As a non-smoker myself I know that before I met my DH, but met up with people who were smokers, I always had to have a shower straight away when I got home, and put my clothes straight into the wash, as both I and my clothes would stink of the horrible smoke, and I didn't want to transfer it to my furniture and linen.

I think that you need to not allow smokers into your establishment at all, not just insist that they don't smoke inside it. Otherwise you will inevitably blame innocent people of smoking when they haven't.

I now regrettably have to give you my invoice for a very unpleasant stay in an establishment that did not advertise it's rooms honestly. When I booked my husband's and my room, it was advertised as being a luxury Kingsize, but it was not. The bed was not a Kingsize bed, the room was certainly not of the size or standard of a luxury Kingsize room. I also do not understand how you could consider the en-suite as anything more than a cupboard. The toilet, shower and sink were so squeezed in, that had I wished to disrobe in there I could not have managed it, unless I was a contortionist, which sadly I am not. My husband could not get comfortable in the bed overnight as it was not big enough for him.

Even though we mainly had a miserable stay - I will remind you of our treatment at your hands soon - I did not complain at the time as life throws us these curve balls, and I didn't want to cause myself any more stress than I had already been through with you. Also, being aware that we have all as a country, in fact as a world, been through a horrendous time in the last 18 to 20 months, I was trying to give your terrible attitude towards both me and my husband the benefit of the doubt. I now see that I should not have given you such a leeway, as you are a professional business man who relies on the general public for your service industry business to survive. So, at the very least you should be pleasant and polite to all your customers, or at least until they are rude to you. You were not at all pleasant or polite to us...."

[at this juncture OP please write down all the salient points you told us, including him complaining about how much Prosecco you ordered, because as you have already quite rightly pointed out, it is up to the landlord to refuse to serve someone if their behaviour shows that they have drunk more than their body can happily cope with]

You should then tell the Landlord that you expect your original fee for your room to be refunded, as it was definitely not as advertised, which meant your husband could not get a good night's sleep (circa £85 I think you said).

Then you tell him the figure that you expect in compensation for having had your long anticipated night away totally ruined by his horrible behaviour. I think that figure should include your travelling expenses, and say about £70 for the upset he caused you and your husband. So even without the travel expenses you expect a figure of £155 from him to be in your bank by the end of the week.

Of course he won't pay it OP, but hopefully he will drop his claim for £150 from you. Either way, until you get a court order telling you that you do have to pay him that money (and I don't think for one minute that it will come to that) then please don't pay him a penny.

Lastly (and thank you if you have stayed with me this far OP), if the landlord had been lovely, and if your bedroom had been what you were led to expect, my answer to you would have been to accept an itemised fine from him, if the costs seem reasonable, and ask your husband to apologise for his very unreasonable behaviour in smoking in the room. I am so sorry that you had such a shitty time OP, one to clock up to experience I am afraid, and hopefully your DH in the future will follow any reasonable, and/or legal regulations of an establishment he is visiting. 💐💐💐

Happymum12345 · 01/12/2021 07:34

I wouldn’t pay it. What evidence do they have? It can’t smell that bad after 1 cigarette smoked outside the window. Air the room, clean sheets etc- they’re making a point.

Bluntness100 · 01/12/2021 07:44

This is the thread that keeps on giving,

It’s went from I had two bottles of Prosecco and my husband was lining up the beers, hanging out the window at 2 am smoking and the landlord was a bit irritated we hadn’t booked for dinner but kindly fitted us in, and made a crack thay I’d not made it to breakfast due to the amount I’d drunk the night before to,,

I’ve never had such shoddy treatment in a hotel in my LiIFE! we were both sober, we were the perfect guests, it was an awful place, we had an awful time, they didn’t want us there, it was cliquey and horrific!

Aye. We believe you.😂😂😂

CeeceeBloomingdale · 01/12/2021 07:51

Of course you should pay, he smoked in a non smoking room and it will need to be cleaned. A non smoker will absolutely be able to tell. There is no point now playing tit for tat and listing issues like patchy wifi and wonky toilet seats, those are issues you should have raised at the time which could have been resolved, not in retaliation. Also if you think the alcohol isn't excessive you might like to consider you ordered more units in an evening than is recommended in an entire week.

rookiemere · 01/12/2021 07:54

@HeartvsBrain that proposed letter is meant to be funny, right ? I can't imagine any establishment owner - particularly as the OP has described them - doing anything with that except throwing straight in the bin or pinning up on the board for the locals to laugh at.

OP your DH broke the rules, leave a review with your negative experience, but it's got nothing to do with him smoking in a non smoking room.

ImInStealthMode · 01/12/2021 07:54

@TheClockTicker A bottle of Prosecco is 6 x 125ml glasses, or 9 units. At the point the landlord made the comment about it (the tone of which we were not witness to) he wasn't to know she hadn't drunk the one she took back to the room.

I'm not a shy drinker by any means but even I'd be a bit aghast at 2 entire bottles / 18 units for one person in one night.

Autumndays123 · 01/12/2021 07:56

Your list of grievances with the hotel sound like something you've put together to justify to yourself why you shouldn't pay the fine. I would note however, that they were so rude that they squeezed you in for a table for dinner, despite being absolutely fully booked? Hmmm

Everything in your post other than the smoking is irrelevant. I'm sorry but I find your husband's behaviour quite scumy. I thought about other words I could use but I think that captures it the best. Smoking inside any establishment is disgusting at the best of times (there are actually towns now that have no smoking anywhere outdoors either btw), but you were in someone else's establishment, where you clearly knew the rules and did it anyway. You clearly don't think what your husband did was bad hence all of the weak attempts at justifying. Scumy behaviour made even more scumy by the refusal to pay the fine. Gross.

MaggieFS · 01/12/2021 07:58

I'll ignore everything but the smoking, because you could argue every side until the cows come home about the rights and wrongs and many points of view.

The fact is, if your DH is a smoker and you are used to living with him, neither of you will realise quite how potent and lingering the smell is. Even with the window open. It won't have been a neighbour that gave it away.

It was have cost a lot of man hours and specialist products to make the room inhabitable for the next guest and that's what the charge will have been for.

It's completely standard and for most people is a sufficient deterrent.

MaggieFS · 01/12/2021 08:00

OH FFS!

It WILL have cost a lot of man hours and specialist products to make the room HABITABLE for the next guest and that's what the charge will have been for.

Thatldo · 01/12/2021 08:17

You both sound a pain in the arse tbh.I would have charged you the same,only to never see you in my pub again.

ImInStealthMode · 01/12/2021 08:18

I wouldn't bother leaving a public review in this instance; most give the option for the business owner to reply these days and he'll just completely undermine anything you say by mentioning the smoking thing (particularly if you refuse to pay).

I think I know where it is you stayed. There are 3 mentions just on their initial booking.com page that they're a non-smoking property. I can't imagine that they overlooked it in the room information and/or booking T&Cs.

BigYellowHat · 01/12/2021 08:23

Who needs a cigarette that badly at 2am? Honestly, it’s selfish and self entitled to think you can smoke in someone’s property with no repercussions. As a non smoker I can assure you that the room would have stunk.

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