Do families who go on 'big' holidays usually rely on credit cards?

[tigermoth]

It's been years since we last went on a 'proper' holiday abroad. Those two weeks in Corsica cost us around £4,000+ (two children, two adults). We had the money at the time and it was a lovely holiay

Since then we have mainly stayed with dh's family in Devon, so we are used to virtually 'free' holidays.

We love Devon, but I know that both our boys have wonderful memories of Corsica. I know how much they would love to go abroad again somewhere similar. As would dh and I.

I also know how much such a holiday is likely to set us back - not necessarily another £4,000 but we'd have to fund the cost of accommodation and airfares (during the school holidays) and we are simply not used to doing this.

It might seem a stupid question, but how do people actually pay for those sort of package holidays? Is it common practice to pay in monthly installments? If so, for how many months can you pay the cost - ie £3,000 spread over 3 months is not a lot of good for us!

We don't have credit cards, so can't spread the payments that way. And with no credit card, we'd have no access to any emergency cash if we were abroad. This worries me. At home with dh's family we have backup if anything goes wrong.

dh and I are not keen on getting a credit card as we both doubt we would be disciplined enough with it. But is it a 'must' if we plan this sort of holiday?

Not for me or I think most of my family. The work is huge fun so it's not something you put up with until you can get home and have fun. Obviously out of work hours you want to be fun too. It's win win when you achieve that and it's why it's so important the three of my children at university pick work they'll love for the next 40 years.

But I agree over cost - doesn't matter what it costs if you're not happy (thinking of times in my marriage etc here) as I'm sure we all know. It's the people not the place that count.

My work's fun as well, you know Most days I really enjoy what I do and if I had to invent a perfect job for me, it would be near this one....(though with a much bigger salary ) It is the best job I have ever had.

But even though I count many of my colleagues as friends and I genuinely looked forward to seeing them today when I returned toi work, I want time - 10 or more weeks of it - to do other fun things and see my family and other friends.

We'd have to tigermoth. Unless some kind fairy godmother stumped up an unexpected load of cash . Like you, we just about afford a holiday in UK. No matter how cheap it might be to stay abroad, buying 5 flights has to cost more than driving to Cornwall and renting a cheapish cottage, and making most of your own meals.

Bozza I am hoping some mumsnetter will tell me there's a little known way of getting a camper van to santander that's cheaper than cheap I know the cost will be considerable and that's just one of many if we choose this holiday.

As you say ormirian, once you factor in costs of flights/ferries to a destination, this will inevidably bump up prices. Mind you, I find just being on holiday in Devon can be really expensive. We inevitably go out more, even if we are careful about eating out in the evening - cafes, pubs, visitor attractions, car parking charges. Nothing is cheap. Driving my boys to the local parks in our area of London, I spend nothing on parking. Food shopping is cheaper, eating and drinking out is cheaper.

hi tigermoth, started to put a list of (useful I hope) info together and its growing rapidly, maybe best to email it to you...
here is ferry/road costs...
ferry - we go dover-calais as we live in SE london so easy journey, we have used speedferries but prefer Sea france - we book in january and for our crossing this year in august it cost us about £85 - so we pay this up front so its all out of the way by the time the holiday comes.

We have travelled different ways there and back to make it more interesting and give us the chance to see other countries/cities but it is quite a lot of miles!

Petrol - costs vary a lot in each country so we try to fill up in the cheaper places, we had a price comparison table on a country basis and this was helpful for example we didn't fill up in Italy as we were leaving but just enough to get us to Austria where it was about 15p a litre cheaper to buy.

Road tolls ? in france you pay for quite a few motorways and it can add up, maybe 40E crossing the country (cant remember exactly) In Austria you buy a ?vignette? for 10 days which I think was 8E and in Switzerland you have to buy a yearly one which was 40SF
Also certain tunnels and passes you pay tolls on also and this probably adds up to another 20E or so, again it all depends on the route you go

Is this the sort of info you want?
j

Ooooh, re the yearly one in Switz, my brother recently travelled around Switzerland in his campervan - he visited various countries but deliberately avoided Switz because he didn't want to go there, and didn't want to pay the tax.

However his satnav kept directing him there - whichever way he was planning to go, the satnav diverted him towards Switz - do you think they've done a deal?

(So if you use satnav - watch it!)

Another factor we had to add in this year was the cost of fueling the hire car - I think it came to about 90 euros - because when we use DH's company car for a holiday he has a fuel card.

We always save up. We're in the process of saving up to go back to Canada next year in the October holidays. I work out how much we will need including spending money, always over estimate it, and put money away each month.

We don't go away every year, we couldn't afford to do that. I'd, personally, never put a whole holiday on a credit card because I know that I wouldn't be able to pay it all off in one go. Once I've saved the money I'll pay for the flights, accom etc with the credit card then I pay off the bill completely when it comes in.

I wouldn't assume that if your credit history is limited rather than bad that you will have to go to lenders with high interest credit cards. They might start you on a lower limit. DP with a shocking credit past but mostly getting on for 10 years old changed his current account from NatWest to Nationwide a couple of years ago and was able to get a credit card from them quite easily.

If you do decide to apply for a credit card, Nationwide is a good one because most cc's add 2.75% onto foreign currency transactions, so an extra £2.75 on every £100 worth of spending, and they don't do that.

I do tend to use credit cards to pay for holidays but normally pay off the bills fairly quickly. For my US holiday coming up I've booked flights to the US with one company and flights within the US with another US based company, and booked hotels direct, so I've used my own Nationwide cc to pay or book for everything which is in dollars. This also means I can cancel my hotel bookings if there needs to be a change of plan (a real problem at the moment for me) at least 24 hours in advance, and I couldn't do that with a travel agent. On the other hand, I don't have the kind of protection you get with a package holiday if they mess up, and my flights only have travel insurance which may well not cough up.

If you're doing this, Linnet's plan sounds like a good way to do it.

Jemw that's really useful to know and vey kind of you to start compiling a list. It's exactly the sort of information I need, especially as you went to Italy so recently. I see you're another south east Londoner, too

Our plan as it stands at the moment is to avoid a long drive from Northern France to Italy. This is way we are looking at the Plymouth Santander crossing (plus MIL lives near-ish to Plymouth so we can stay with her for a few days).

I am interested to know about the day to day living costs - buying food, eating out, bar and family restaurant prices. Also, do you book campsites in advance or just turn up - and what is the cheapest or least stressful option? And how did you cover yourselves for vehicle breakdowns and emergencies, bearing in mind that old campervans may need specialist garages? I am sure there are more questions, but that's the sort of thing I am thinking about.

No we don't have a SATNAV, but dh may be getting one for work - will bear in mind the need to avoid Switzerland at all costs.

Thanks for the credit card info, too.

I am learning such a lot!

Xenia, Tigermoth - I didn't say (and didn't mean you to understand) by "trade-off" that one isn't supposed to enjoy one's work. What I meant - and what both of you in fact confirmed - is that for some people it is a better compromise to work 48 x 60-hour weeks a year and earn, say £500,000, and put up with only four weeks' holiday and hardly seeing your family from Monday-Friday and for others it is a better compromise to work 40 x 35-hours weeks a year and earn £40,000.

And, IMO, one of the massive advantages of living as a couple are the economies of scale you can implement. For example, I have a friend whose husband is a professor of finance who earns shedloads of money teaching finance seminars all over the globe. He works term-time only, but he is often away from home for up to a week, often jet-lagged, and requires a lot of domestic and childcare support (he has four children, two from his first marriage and two with my friend).

My friend (very intelligent and highly qualified) has compromised her earning potential to be with her husband but, as she says, if she insisted on him doing half the domestic and childcare stuff to let her pursue her job, their combined lifestyle would drop dramatically - no more eight-week summer holidays travelling the globe with four children, no more four weeks' ski-ing every winter, they wouldn't be able to live in a huge house surrounded by a forest with indoor pool etc.

That's what I mean by a trade-off.

tigermoth, in terms of vehicle breakdown yes we had a full recovery cover, can't remember how much it costs but its an annual policy and we decided that we should always have full cover when travelling with small children (ours are 6 and 8) - however we do have a newish van so the risk is probably less - saying that we did write off our old campervan in france a few years back! and got full use of the recovery policy then!

we also have credit cards with us for emergencies and also put all petrol on it whilst away and pay off when we return.

Am at work now but will try to get the food and campsite indicative costs to you later

And lastly some friends of ours went to lake garda this summer and they did plymouth-santander then drove across spain to barcelona and then sailed barcelona-genoa and drove up that way to Lake Garda before driving home across Austria/Germany/France

I think the cost of breakdown cover for a 30-year-old vehicle might be nearly as much as the cost of the holiday!

RAC limit cover to 6-year-old vehicles and I suspect most of the other big companies would be the same - what make is it, tigermoth? An owner club might be a good place to start looking.

Oh, it's a lot better than that! I just did a trial quote on the RAC website for 3 weeks away in a 30-year-old vehicle and comprehensive cover was just over £150 with a 10% online discount - that's not bad at all!

You'd need to check the small print though - an older vehicle might have a much larger excess.

back to campervans to italy.....
Campsites ? we tend not to book as we don?t like being tied to that, however we don?t go in high season so have never found it necessary, there is a risk of course but so far we have been ok, we do make sure we stop in reasonable time though so we are not too late for a pitch.
Costs for 2 adults, 2 children (cost of child varies from site to site sometimes age 2 or 5 or 8 you get them cheaper but generally once over 10 they are classed at adult price) campervan (some sites include electricity costs, some don?t and we don?t always take it anyway), - for this trip varied from 17E to 51E per night, this year we took a Europe campsite book with us, didn?t bother last year but definitely easier with a book! I don?t think there is any difference in cost if book in advance

We took about 6 days to drive to destination, approx week on coast (near Venice so not too far into italy in terms of driving) and then 5 days to drive back so we mix up driving days and beach days, I can send you route if you like so you get an idea, use RAC or michelin on web for route indications sometimes also, and tell you mileage

You can't expect me to support your friend's choice, Anna as it's very unfair and her serving the man and her career ruined. But no need for us to debate that I'm just surprised these women like these subsidiary domestic roles. They obviously have genes I don't have. WHy isn't her husband doing all that support at home and ironing her shirts whilst she's abroad earing the money? Beacuse they have a sexist relationship or do second wives like that have to compromise because they kind of feel luckier to have got someone who is on a second family. That might be an interesting study - more sexism in second marriages and less equality because of differences in power balances,having to prove you're better than the first wife all the time.

Anyway if being home is dire as many men and women find it on a long term basis and work is huge fun then the working and earning a lot is a win win situation for men and women (and their children in my view) all round.

And you're also assuming every one has or wants a man or a partner (if lesbian). Women's mental health is better if they're single.

But Xenia, there is nothing unfair about it all - they are both very happy with their lives. They are very contented with that trade-off because they know they are collectively better off with that situation than any other. You might not like it (though I bet their lifestyle is a lot more fun than yours ). I can think of lots of women with similar sorts of lifestyles - first and second wives - who are delighted.

Oh - and people like that don't iron the shirts - they have cleaners and au pairs.

Tigermoth I feel for you. We are just off to Corsica next week (out of school hols so cheaper) it's very nearly the last of my ill-gotten gains from maternity bonus I got from work. Feel a bit knowing it will be the last of that sort of hol for a while!

Having been once before 3 years ago like you I felt I knew the territory a bit and was happy to get the bits separately.

Flights - Holiday Options (for charter flights without rest of package) via DirectCorsica.com
Accommodation - 2 sep. villas direct with owners, one via directcorsica, one from their own website (with some schoolgirl French)
Car hire - Hertz with AA discount, came up cheapest on travelsupermarket, plus excess waiver from carhireexcess.com
Insurance from cheapest on comparison site

There was even cheaper accommodation available from local tourist offices but some of it looked a bit too basic for toddlers!

This is coming up about £2400, as a comparison Corsican Places quoted me over £3200 for a similar deal as a package.
It's still a lot to save up for but every little helps doesn't it?

thanks everyone else for all the tips though

Thanks Jemw for the information. I definitely think we will go prepared with books on campsites, and it's reassuring to know you didn't have problems in just turning up. The costs don't sound too bad, either. We have a spare battery which gives us some power for lighting etc when we camp, and a gas powered cooker.

I am a bit wary of us doing lots of full days of driving, both for the sake of the camper van and our sanity. So I need to do some careful research of my own into road routes.

Also, I don't know how to drive the van so all driving falls to dh. It is his baby, he is very territorial about it and is extremely reluctant for me to use it. He keeps reminding me that its value is going up all the time - it is quite a desirable model.

I have never driven the van. I am a competant driver (driving for the last 15 years) and have my own car, so this has never been a huge problem at home, but on holiday this is an unacceptable risk. If dh had an accident can couldn't drive, I would need to be able to take the wheel. I know it is a harder vehicle to drive than a modern car, but dh has to let me practice it somewhere (I have been saying this for two years!).

Thanks for looking up the insurance costs wendy. Good point about the high excess. I think we need to go onto some specialist websites and see what we can find. It's a VW camper (looks a bit like the scoobydo one, but is a bit older). There are lots of clubs and websites with talkboards, so I will have to look on these.

Jemw, thanks for all your help

grannyslippers, bon voyage for next week! you lucky things.

Good tips on savings. I have definitely learned how it pays to do it independently. As our sons would be 14 and nearly 9 next summer, we have no need of toddler proof accommodation The Simply Corsica villa we had on our £4,000 holiday was very basic - even billed in the brochure as such. But there was an excellent nursery and young kids club onsite. We don't need those sort of children's facilities now, of course, so this makes things easier.

This may be controversial but I feel a bit different about "borrowing" money for holidays. In our previous life we had enough money to fund school fees and one "bigg - ish" holiday a year. The past few years we have been broke because my DH has been ill and, because, he is freelance and we had some savings he has had no income at all. I am supporting us on not a lot of money until things get better. A holiday is all important to me and to the family - it means memories. Try thinking about things you did 5 or 6 years ago - it's very hard. Then look at your holiday photos and it takes you right back to (luckily) happy times. Money is so tight now I am totally abandoned to buying a holiday on a credit card and paying for it .... eventually! We spent years and years saving carefully for everything. I really don't care any more about being in debt. I could start a rant about married freelance people not being entitled to benefits but that is another thread!!

By the way - I do agree about "encouraging" children to think about the lifestyle they hope to have when choosing their career path. I also disagree that students do not generally know what they want to do. My DSs both get huge help and encouragement from their careers department. DS1 has just started 6th form and has already changed one of his AS subject choices from Art to Economics because he realises it may be of more use to him when applying to uni. At the moment he thinks he wants to be a musical festival events manager fgs but realises that with good A levels in maths/econonomics whatever - he could train as an accountant or go into banking and earn more money. We always tell our DSs that to have the lifestyle they are used to they will have to earn Far More than we have done/do as things are so much harder now.

That's a really good point, motheroftwoboys when you say " Try thinking about things you did 5 or 6 years ago - it's very hard. Then look at your holiday photos and it takes you right back."

I am astounded how much detail ds1 remembers about our Corsica holiday. We have been to France to stay with friends and had countless holidays with MIL in Devon, but still he talks about Corsica and what we did there. He was about 8 at the time, but still remembers it so vividly. It was a really special holiday for him. ds can remember lots of lovely times in Devon, but they all merge into one as it is sort of a home from home. There is something different about going to a new place as a family and finding out about it together.

Childhood is fleeting and you never know what is round the corner. People grow older or go away. Who knows when ds1 will tire of holidays with us? He shows no sign of it now, but he will be 14 years old by next summer.

I can see exactly why you have made the choice to have good holidays and pay later. I am sure there are plenty of other people on mumsnet who have reasoned it out just like you have.

Further down the thread, Tiredemma said 80% of people booked their holiday by credit card when she worked in a travel agent. I'm sure a proportion of them pay off the cost before they incurred incurring interest, but I bet a lot don't.

Haven't read thread to this may have already been said but it is so much cheaper if you book flights, accomodation etc seperately instead of a package.
This year's holiday (me, DP, 2 DSs) to the south of France, staying in fantastic accomodation, came in under £1,500. We always book low-cost flights and villas on the net. Last year's, to a beautiful part of Italy, cost us £1,200.
It really is worth the extra effort to book independently.