that long walk to passport control with a toddler and no pushchair

[bettya]

Is it just me or is that walk from the plane to passport control with a toddler becoming more difficult. When she was tiny it was fine I could pick her up for the walk but now its getting almost impossible to pick her up and walk for more than a minute. Anybody else have the same problem and how do you cope? is there any way to get them to bring the pushchair to the plane door?

Ass - the parents turned for a split second and their child bolted off. It has happened to me where that happens. It is hardly surprising it happened given the lack of sleep, being in a foreign country and trying to keep an eye on bags plus toddler.

Big difference when I go shopping. I have my double stroller in the car or the supermarket has carts that can hold up to four kids. There have been times when I have decided, after parking, to ditch the supermarket shopping because one or both of the dc are not up to it. Don't have that luxury when traveling by plane.

So yeah I am disabled when I can't go to the bathroom without assistance and when it's unsafe for me to get from one end of the airport to the other without a set of wheels. Just as airports help the elderly who are very slow and wobbly, they should extend the same help to parents with young children when their stroller is not provided at the gate when disembarking from the plane.

The point is airports have done nothing to accommodate the needs of various kinds of travellers. They have to accommodate disabled travellers, by law, so they do. They ought to be adapted to people travelling with various other different kinds of needs (including the need that comes with carrying two other human beings who themselves need quite a bit of kit) but they don't. The only concession they make is to disabled people and that's not really sufficient.

We jockey to be the toughest, most hard core mum and to be slightly disdainful to anyone who would like it to be a bit easier. But instead of running this self-defeating dialogue, we should be demanding, better, more appropriate facilities. I'm no fan of parent and toddler car parking spaces - I've never seen the need - but at least the supermarkets are trying to think about what their customers might need. Airports very notably do not give a stuff. And that makes me angry. As I said upthread, I suspect the airport model is built around the able bodied business traveller who might spend a bit in duty free and that's as far as the planning goes. I've never understood why parents and children are not deemed to count as much as other types of travellers in this regard.

So there are two parents and a toddler who bolts, and the airport is somehow to blame because they didn't use reins or a wrist strap?

As I said, the problem is lack of supervision. How does being in a foreign country mean a toddler is more likely to bolt off and get injured?

Just as airports help the elderly who are very slow and wobbly - I presume you mean eldery people who are disabled? ie can't walk far?

I'm sorry but you are utterly misguided if you think that you should be entitled to use the same facilities as disabled people just because you can't manage your two kids in an airport. If you can't manage it alone, don't travel alone.

Ass Actually my MIL isn't registered as disabled and uses assistance at airports. A lot of elderly people who are not disabled use those services and I think it is right that they are provided with any assistance they think is necessary.

At the same time it is ludicrous to expect someone with two small DC to not travel because airports don't want to provide assistance to them. That was the attitude towards disabled people not so long ago. If the airport/airline can't get the stroller to the gate then an alternative solution should be provided.

With regard to the toddler who nearly lost their hand, the family were possibly travelling to the country for the first time. I don't think it is unreasonable, after an 8 hour flight with a 6 hour time difference, for the parents to be a little overwhelmed when trying to get through a busy airport with hand luggage and a hyperactive toddler. I go through the same airports all the time and travelled extensively through my childhood so I know to have reins in the diaper bag just in case. Others don't know, especially if it is common for your stroller to be handed back to you at the gate.

Quangle I totally agree. I have been very vocal when travelling about my needs not being met. In this day and age it is totally unacceptable that I was left schlepping two young children who were clearly not able to walk for a mile on my own. As it was I hurt my neck and shoulders and nearly dropped both kids at different times. It was so dangerous and if I were in that situation again I would not leave the plane until I had assistance.

Airports are a business like any other, over and above wht they legally need to provide, they will provide services that are in demand, people are willing to pay for and that can make them some kind of profit/increase in revenue etc.

So effectively either you need to campaign for a "pay for use service" or ask the airports to supply it for free, or be prepared for them to put up air tax for all travellers to supply a service that only some people need - or maybe another option that i can't think off.

Last I was aware, it wasn't compulsory to fly with toddlers so if it isn't manageable then maybe find another way to travel or wait until they are older or you can take some assistance or carry less other stuff or use one of the other suggestions people have given.

Personally if I saw someone struggling I would offer to help them but appreciate that cannot be relied on/accepted. I also don't believe there is a race/prize for getting to passport Control first - ime you get there only to queue anyway and then you have to wait for your baggage at the next stage. If you can't carry them then let them walk slowly and you get there when you get there.

Airports aren't really a business like any other. They are part of a regulated industry and they are part of our transport infrastructure. That's why Heathrow is a matter of national debate - not just a matter for the owners. They are also frequently in receipt of massive subsidies - either directly from govt or indirectly from the airlines who are in turn in receipt of national subsidies.

If you run a sandwich shop and you don't want to provide the sort of sandwich I want then I go elsewhere and that's fair enough. If you run a national airport then you have considerably more obligations to the nation you serve.

It's not a huge issue for me but I do think passengers should demand more.

I meant that they are business and not a nationalised industry or a charity - i.e. they are there to make money not to supply a free service. They are paid fees by both the airlines and passengers, if passengers want different services they will need to be profitable in one way or another - i.e. they may not make a direct profit but increase revenue indirectly through increases in passenger numbers etc. If the numbers demanding/asking for/using a service don't deliver some benefit and are not part of their legislated requirements then they wont provide them.

I'm personally not convinced it's their issue tbh. You can either manage or you can't - if you can't then ask if they can/will help, if they can't/won't then either find another way to travel, devise something that works for you or campaign for change or don't travel.

People with children surely make those judgments every day? I know that when mine were younger there were things I would have liked to do but if I was on my own with 2 toddlers then I had to decide if I could manage or not. I didn't always get it right, or sometimes things happened that were outwith my control, that fed into my decisions over whether to do a similar thing again.

So please do share how I am supposed to get from America to Europe with a baby and a toddler, now two toddlers?!? There is no other way for me to get back to visit family or wait, I am supposed to wait for my DH to make himself available! I try my best for my DC and part of that is making sure they get time with their grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins plus time spent in the country they are from so they can qualify for citizenship when they turn 21.

My mother managed to travel all over the world with 3 DC under the age of 5 without any problems because airlines/airports used to recognize small children as needing assistance. They don't offer the same service on the plane as they did back then and I am fine with that. However, if they can give passengers back their bag that was gate checked I do not understand why my stroller can't also be returned. After all I am paying the same as those passengers getting their bag back for a seat for each DC so there is no argument about it not being affordable.

Really recommend a hippy chick hip seat - I have used one for exactly this purpose up to the age of about 4 (and a fairly hefty child!).

Admittedly it felt a bit like an iron man contest on the memorable occasion that I struggled from baggage reclaim to the car (loooong way) with exhausted 3yo on hip seat, dragging exhausted 6yo by the hand, carrying three sets of hand luggage and pulling a suitcase... but much easier than without the hip seat!

Something we found surprisingly helpful with DD1 when traveling a lot with her as a toddler, was getting her own wheely suitcase.

It only ever came out for flights (about once every 2 months or so) and she got to pack it herself. She was so pleased to be able to wheel her case "just like Mummy" that provided I was happy to go at toddler pace, there was never a problem.

(Mind you, we recently did NZ - Japan - Ireland with 2 DC and I had converted to the "use backpack and take any help offered" school of thought, including using a buggy for 3.5yo DD2 who has a habit of either running off or refusing to move. Dubai airport's - expensive - meet and greet transfer service was an utter godsend after a 12 hour flight with two tired bewildered children)

Want in a word, yes. Either wait or get help from a family member or by all means ask if the airline will help in advance of flying. Because the airline really don't care about any of your reasons for travelling. Back in your Mum's day there were possibly less people flying or just like everything back then, service was just better, profit margins didn't seem to be as tight and people just get better service all round.

I totally take your point re the checked bags I can only assume its because there are far more people travelling with tots in buggies and so can therefore not offer the service as they don't have enough room? That's the point I would push if I were you tbh.

L&L Looks good but its when I end up with two sleepy kids requiring my to carry them that I am screwed. All the flights from NYC to Europe are overnight flights so my kids tend to be sleepy when we land. Best solution is to put the kids into the stroller. Last summer I had DS toddling along with reins on falling over every third step while I carried DD as she was passed out. Once I had a cart (after walking very slowly for more than half an hour) I was fine. Why the airport staff couldn't have gotten me a cart or the airline my stroller was beyond me. It was a businessman in his late 50s/early 60s who gave me his cart.

viola Any flight over 5 hours going over more than 2 timezones screws my DC up. They are either hyper or fast asleep on arrival. I can only imagine NZ - Japan - Ireland. OMG!!! Xanax time.

I only wish I'd had some Xanax want2b! There were, admittedly, 10 days in the middle in Japan but that just wore everyone out, meant we had to deal with jet lag twice, and meant DD2 had stopped eating properly as we suspect some level of allergen exposure. When you add that to unsuitable meals for DD2 (she has food allergies so the only meal she can safely eat is the vegan meal - but that really doesn't cater for 3 year olds), and DH having some weird turn half way through the Tokyo-Dubai leg of the last flight and again on the Dubai-Dublin leg... it all adds up to me not flying again in the near future without a nanny, first class tickets and some strong whiskey :)

Want - it's the same as any other person doing that. Either your child is old enough to walk or small enough to sling. Yes they might be grumpy but they will have to just walk. When I was flying with x2 under 18 months I used to take x2 slings incase needed. Baby in wrap on front, basic sling on back if needed for eldest.
Otherwise just bribe eldest with lolly and walk slowly and stop.

However maybe you should try both getting used to no pram at home also. We only had a single with 15 month gap so they were used to walking distances even if tired sometimes.

Also time flights for nights. I always fly overnight if possible, dress them in comfy clothes and they sleep 90% of the way

( we fly on average 15 short haul and 10 long haul a year with children. 75% of time one adult only)

Art Even if I had two in slings plus toy bag for DD and diaper bag I was carrying over 60lb of baby and easily carrying over 70lb in total. That is a lot of weight. I do nearly all long haul flights a year, 3-4 trips to Europe (one long haul with a short hop when we arrive) and 3-4 trips to Canada (west coast). Trips to Canada are never a problem because I get my stroller at the gate or its in the overhead locker. Trips to Europe are a problem every single time I go through an airport where they don't give me my stroller (Gatwick and Scandinavian airports). I am not going to ruin my health so now I demand assistance or my stroller back. Funnily enough it works and I normally get my stroller back.

A couple of the regional Danish airports have you go up and down stairs to get to the gate/baggage claim area. I want to give the person who designed the airport my 2 DC at 6am and have them walk them up and down said stairs on their own with the DC and hand luggage.

If you usually ask for your buggy back and they usually give it you, what's the problem?

Don't take an entire toy bag? It's 12 hrs max. Few books and crayons inside handbag. Less toys will bore them to sleep. Let them watch in flight entertainment if needed.

Potty train asap so you aren't lugging double the nappies

ass The problem is that not all airlines/airports will do that. None of the Scandinavian airports will not give your stroller back at the gate. You must go to baggage pick up and then back into the airport. Its a 737 or 757 that we come in on which is perfectly capable but its in the union contract that baggage handlers are not required to return strollers to the gate.

I have asked before and it was on a united flight that the captain called the ground crew and demanded the stroller be brought the gate. She was a mother of 5 and awesome. When the ground crew at the door of the plane told her that they couldn't do it she told them if they can bring a wheelchair to the door of the plane they can bring a stroller too. Someone went and got an airport stroller for us to use so I was only carrying one.

I don't use Gatwick at all these days. I pay the extra and fly direct to Manchester or if with KLM go to Liverpool/Manchester. Luckily the BA flight to Seattle is from Heathrow and not Gatwick. I pray that continues to be the case!

Having flown long haul by myself with a baby and a toddler I would recommend taking a rucksack, a trunki and a sling. Get lining bags for trunki which you can take out on plane as toy bags. Everything else (diapers/change of clothes etc in rucksack). Once younger baby is toddler use two trunkis and rucksack.

Although I find a bigger problem is how to push a luggage trolley and pushchair at the same time.

Tarka to get round that I take one wheely bag which I hook onto the pushchair handles. I can then push the buggy and drag it along at the same time.

We've got this travel thing licked

It is true that a hip seat wouldn't be much good for 2 toddlers - I have a 3 year age gap so not really been a problem for us thankfully.

I would just like to counter the complaints about airports not facilitating travel with children (which are valid) with a massive round of applause for whatever genius decided to put free soft play in the departures terminals at Heathrow. They never seem to be busy and last time we went there was a member of staff in there with the kids organising games. Fantastic.

Tarka This is what you need. I have had up to five suitcases connected that way. However, with SAS they lose our bags every other time we travel to Europe so often I don't have any issues with hauling luggage and stroller.

L&L Some airports are great. Schiphol and Heathrow are excellent airports for those travelling with children. CPH has a child play area in the business lounge which is pretty good. No food or drink but I normally hover at the entrance with a beer/wine in one hand and a coffee in the other (yes at 7am in the morning!). The play area for anyone to use at CPH is up two flights of stairs. No elevator access or bathrooms up there so when DD needed to go pee I had to haul everyone plus luggage down the stairs.

Right, I've thought it through and I have the solution - you just need someone to take the idea and manufacture it - anyone due to go on the Apprentice!!

What we need is something like this:

www.ebuyer.com/237927-targus-rolling-laptop-case-for-up-to-16-inch-laptops-tbr003eu?utm_source=google&utm_medium=products&gclid=COOMpoXHisQCFSzKtAodqFgAmw

But when the handle pulls out it has a piece of the fabric or plastic between the two poles to act as a backrest. It also has straps attached like car seat/buggy straps, so essentially you pull up the handle, plonk toddler on their bottom on the top of the bag as if its a seat, strap them on and wheel them to baggage reclaim. obviously it's not suitable for log trips or use outside or to be left unattended etc, but is perfect for a quick stroll through an airport, No?

It's my patent though.