school holidays prices shocking

[princesscupcakemummyb]

ive been sat here looking into our family holiday for 2014 now usually we wouldnt be restricted by dates month etc but now the oldest dd goes school full time we only have half terms and 6 week holidays i cant belive how much these holiday parks charge for these times of the year its oer double any other time of the year i was wondering how does everyone else do it with school children ? do you just bite the bullet and pay the stupid excess or do you just not go on holiday at all? any replies appreciated thanks all

if you are in any doubt about how LEA's and schools are being made to crack down on absence even if common sense is screaming differently then have a look at the thread on Am I being unreasonable
here

Absences yes , mummy but each authority has their own policy on fining.

soontobesix - each LEA might have their own policies at the moment but this will be challenged and you cannot have a law interpreted differently depending on which LEA the school is located in. look at the advice being given to Ofsted inspectors. they are aware of this and they are going to crack down and stop it happening. the background papers to the legislation are pretty clear. they want all absences fined all of the time. when schools start seeing their ratings affected then they will be telling the LEA's they have to change. this is like saying that one police force fines you for drink driving whilst another decides not to. discretion on this scale wont be allowed to continue. give it 6 months soontobesix then come back to this thread and see I am right. also have a look at the am I being unreasonable link above.

There have always been diffe rent practices between schools and local authorities.

Our letter from school says 5 days or more in any 6 month period will result in a fine. So am not expecting a fine for 4 days. But when I booked the holiday I thought I would be fined, it is more lenient than I thought. Hurrah!

Of course may change in future, but even if I was fined I would still do it.

Maybe you are right but as far as I understand the law relates to schools being unable to authorise holidays. The fining is a different matter, parking fines for example differ in different councils.

mummymeister

It is not "the law" that unauthorised holidays incur a fine. Which is why you won't find any legislation defining the limits of the penalty (unlike drink driving which clearly defines the offense and the penalties).

Maybe "discretion" will be used less often but it's not down to a law on when to fine or not.

notthefirst - I have done hours of research on this which I am happy to share with you if you pm me. the regulations hereare clear. the expectation of the dept for education and Ofsted is that all absences except exceptional ones will be denied and all unauthorised absences will result in fines. attendance officers in school will be required to pass the information on to the LEA and they will issue penalties. if you have an unauthorised absence then the expectation is that you will be fined. It is bonkers. heads will be required to give justification of "exceptional circumstances" when/if they grant them. the offence is defined as I can see it and the penalties set down as well. I accept that in some areas of the country common sense has broken out and heads are using a 5 day rule or granting exceptional absence for people on fixed holidays but this is the exception not the rule. and for those that are once Ofsted come along and get wind of it when they look at absence coding it will be stopped.

*The Education (Penalty Notices) (England) Regulations 2007
Requirement to draw up code of conduct

14. Each local education authority must draw up a code of conduct which sets out measures to ensure consistency in the issuing of penalty notices, including—

(a)means of avoiding the issue of duplicate penalty notices;
(b)measures to ensure that a penalty notice is not issued in respect of an offence when proceedings for that offence under section 444 of the 1996 Act (or an offence under subsection (1A) of that section arising out of the same circumstances) or section 103(3) of the 2006 Act, as the case may be, are contemplated or have been commenced by the local education authority;
(c)the occasions when it will be appropriate to issue a penalty notice for an offence;
(d)a maximum number of penalty notices that may be issued to one parent in any twelve month period; and
(e)arrangements for co-ordination between the local education authority, neighbouring local education authorities where appropriate, the police and authorised officers(1).*

Does that sound like every absence will be fined?
No.
It clearly states a penalty fine must be "appropriate" (Section c) and according to an agreed "code of conduct" according to each LEA.

I'm not arguing with you to be pedantic but there is no LAW to say every unauthorised absence will be fined. It is up to the LEA and headteacher. the only revision to the law was the amount of fine (and timescale)and that no holidays would be authorised.

Check for inset days.

DD's school had two at the start of term in September. We saved a lot of money this year coming back the day most people were back at school.

notthefirst - please read what Ofsted have to say in respect of what they are expecting to see when they carry out inspections. there is nothing here that says that the code of conduct cannot say that every absence is fined. my LEA's code says that all unauthorised absences coded as such must be reported to them and they will all be fined. my lea is not alone. just because some leas are being reasonable does not mean they all are. the outcome of this is that school holiday prices have gone up and will go up to cover the loss of term time holidays when families with 1 child at school and may be one or two not used to go in early June or July.

if you take even one day it is £60 per child per parent so £120 for 1, £240 for 2 and so on. in some areas it is £60 per leave but in others £60 per day. this isn't an anecdote lljkk this is now the law.

I was taking issue with this statement mummymeister. The law refers to holidays NOT fines. Ofsted cannot enforce a law if there isn't one.

Actually I don't think holiday prices will go up because the families that take term time holidays couldn't afford them in the first place/wanted the specific term time date.
Therefore there won't be more families taking holidays in August for example but the term time prices may drop to entice families back.
As a single mum of one I would be quite happy paying £60 for period of absence in term time. There is nothing to say it must be per day or per session (some families would be fined every week if that was applied)

notthefirst, I have done lots of research with holiday companies here and abroad. I have also asked the question here on mumsnet. prices have gone up. its simple economics. if you have spaces in June and July because your hotel/site was geared up for kids and now they cant come, then you will be losing income. this has to be made up somewhere so prices in school holiday times have to go up. you might not believe it but it is happening. go back through some of the threads and see that this is the case. if you think term time prices are going to drop to entice people back then you have a long wait. the issue of the fine is that some schools/LEA's are interpreting it differently. if you disagree with me then look at the price of a couple of holidays in 2012 or early 2013 and then compare to 2014 for say August. have you looked at the Ofsted guidance? tricky to get in to this part of the site but will support what I have said.

This is my last post on this because we have totally taken this discussion over!!!

1. How can you "research holidays"? Holidays take place in many different countries using a variety of flights, ferries, trains, in many types of accommodation on different board basis with many different nationalities. A (small) change to the rules in the UK will make very little difference to the price unless that is your sole market.(I would say Legoland Windsor may lose out a bit)

2. Yes holidays are more expensive but that is down to fuel and the price of the euro more than anything. Not every holiday is about families either!

3. Yes it's simple economics. why would you price people out in school holidays if you noticed people weren't coming in term time too? You'd be shut down in no time. Holidays are a luxury that people won't take if the price isn't right.
   Have you seen how cheap cruises are out of school holidays? Of course these will be taken by families willing to risk a couple of hundred to save £1,000's.

Ofsted check overall attendance at school. If the rate of attendance is high they won't give a monkeys that no penalty fines were issued.

It's unworkable - if the family of four on Free School Meals gets Butlins vouchers what happens? A weeks fine according to some of your calculations will be £120 x 2 parents that's £240 x 5 = £1,200 everyone knows they won't be able to pay it so why bother issuing it?