Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Applying for universities in the USA

26 replies

Sunnyvale75 · 22/05/2022 17:01

Hello,
Does anyone have experience of applying successfully to the Ivy league universities?

My DS is interested in applying.He would be a first generation student and we would need financial aid.

It would be great to hear from.anyone with experience.

Thank you in advance.

OP posts:
poetryandwine · 22/05/2022 18:09

Hi, OP -

I am a UK STEM academic who has also taught at three US universities, all in the top 25 of various world rankings. Two state flagship unis and one private uni.

First, this sounds exciting and I will give you more specifics about financial aid in a moment. Before I do, I wonder whether you are thinking only of the Ivy League? By all means go for it, but there are loads of universities and colleges (in the American sense) with equivalent academic prestige. (Note to Mumsnetters: in North America, traditionally a college is an HE institution that does not offer the PhD, although it may offer Masters degrees. (This is no longer a perfect categorisation, I believe.)) Some are highly elite.

No one applies only to the Ivies, the risk of coming up empty is too great, and you are shortchanging yourself! Comparable private universities include Stanford, Chicago and Duke. MIT is tops for STEM, Carnegie-Mellon is close for certain STEM fields, Johns Hopkins is tops for life sciences maybe other fields. Berkeley, UCLA, Virginia, Michigan, Texas, NYU (private), UCSD and others all have some world leading programmes. For politics and government, logically enough the private universities in the DC area have some very prestigious programmes.

Will your DS be classified as an American or an international student? It makes a difference for financial aid. Many universities are assessing applications on a 'needs blind' basis, but not all of those that do are committed to offering a full financial aid package, especially to international students. As of 2018, Harvard, Yale, Princeton and MIT offer good university aid to international students; whether this achieves parity with the package for Americans I don't know. I think so. I do know that for example at Harvard if (an American) student's family income is less than $75,000 that student pays nothing. No tuition fees, free university housing, etc. No loans, no paperwork, it it is all very clean and easy. I think the current cutoff at Harvard for partial university aid is a family income of about $150,000. Unfortunately I believe most universities do still favour Americans in both admissions and financial aid.

Here is a link to a 2021 article from US News and World Report showing that Columbia, Duke and Stanford are now also giving a lot of aid to international students. www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/the-short-list-college/articles/universities-that-offer-international-students-the-most-financial-aid. (Sorry that it appears not to work.)

To their credit, the Ivies are keen to recruit first generation university students. I think some of them may have outreach offices for this purpose, and staff to help you with with the type of knowledge that the fifth generation Todhunter-Snoots have in their bones. I wonder if any Mumsnetters know of online forums that might have useful info for you?

Sunnyvale75 · 22/05/2022 20:29

Thank you@poetryandwine

I really appreciate the detailed post.
My DS only.wants to apply.to universities that offer substancal aid to international students.
He has mentioned Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, Stanford and U Chicago.. There also others he might consider depending on aid.

He is being encouraged by his school but he is really self driven in this . It's a little overwhelming for us if I"m honest, but also very exciting. He will also apply to universities in the UK also but his heart is set on the US.

He intends to study a stem subject along with a liberal arts subject , he told me this would allow him to work in the US afterwards for a few years at least. He likes the US system because it him gives him the opportunity to explore more of his interests.

He intends to study for the ACT"s as soon his GCSES are finished (he has saved up and purchased the required books).

He is taking a mix of stem and arts subjects for a level ( 4 in total) , again he has told me that the US colleges like this. He is very involved in EC's at school which again appeal to the US ( and relate to his interests). He has been successful on a national level with these.He has been given leadership roles at school and I imagine he will expand this in 6th form. He also also set up an NGO for school students, this is also related to the field that he wishes to study.

I do hope that he succeeds in his goal but I do know that the competition will be very tough.

OP posts:
HoneyMobster · 23/05/2022 12:48

@Sunnyvale75 - you're right that there can be very generous financial aid at some of the schools, particularly the Ivy League. There are some online calculation tools you can take a look at to see what might be available. You may be surprised as to just how generous the aid can be.

calmlakes · 23/05/2022 13:00

Is he sure that he needs to sit ACT?
I am actually enrolled at one of the colleges on his list and they were perfectly happy with my UK based qualifications.
(This comes with the proviso that I'm enrolled as a post graduate peeps.)
But my understanding is that ACT is being used much less than it used to be.

Sunnyvale75 · 23/05/2022 13:19

Yes, he has used the online calculator @HoneyMobster . It does work out very well for us.. l realize that until he has an offer you can't guarantee only.

@calmlakes His school has suggested that it would be a good idea. I think that he wants to give himself the best possible chance. Congratulations on your offer , that is fantastic achievement!

OP posts:
poetryandwine · 23/05/2022 13:22

Hello again, OP -

Thank you for this further information. Given your constraints, I don't see the point of looking at state schools (the UC schools, Michigan, VA, Texas). I doubt they will have aid for international students. If one of them has a programme that specifically appeals to your DS it is worth investigating, because they are all very large and sometimes you get a wealthy donor with a particular interest. But normally the state schools focus most of their aid on in-state students and certainly on Americans. Sad but reasonable from the perspective of the state taxpayers.

An MIT academic once told me that MIT has a surprisingly good English Department. He said they realised that they need some strength in the Humanities for the undergraduates who realise after arrival that they aren't going to make it in STEM in that ultra-competitive environment. I'm not suggesting that one would set out to study English at MIT, but if it is the secondary interest of your DS and STEM is primary, then given that MIT has good aid for international students and cannot be beat for STEM it seems worth adding to the list. My sense of the place is that students are happy there, although your DS should investigate online forums.

He might also investigate Carnegie-Mellon - superb for CS and very good for some other STEM. I don't know what the aid situation is.
Duke is generally outstanding at the undergraduate level with excellent aid for international students so I would add it to the list. Chicago is not as well known as it should be, IMO. I would say it is up there with Harvard, Princeton and Yale in terms of offering a rigorous, rounded education. Possibly even more demanding. I hope their aid situation is good. Stanford is of course another great choice.

You might also want to consider the elite colleges, such as Amherst and perhaps one or two others (Haverford? It is a men's college with a nearby sister), that offer good aid packages to international students. There is absolutely no stigma attached to an American college. Many parents and students prefer them. The staff usually have excellent academic credentials, but teaching is the primary mission. They interact extensively with students. There is a lot of opportunity for independent study, etc. At the elite universities most of the interaction, certainly in the first two years, is in small groups led by postgraduate students. The big name professors mainly lecture, often at a metaphorical arm's length. The well known colleges, including these two, give excellent preparation for postgraduate study in North America.

I don't know which of these unis want the ACT, which the SAT, and which are making the whole thing optional. Even if optional, I suggest your DS take at least one and get his scores, then send them along if he is happy with them.

Decisions are typically made in the winter or spring, before A levels. Unlike the UK, they are not conditional on final exams. American pupils get grade reports every semester. Those are used in the evaluation of applications.

I think your DS is doing a lot of things right in terms of making American applications: a mix of subjects, the high level extracurriculars (the NGO sounds fascinating) etc. Supracurriculars (independent study in his chosen subject) also help. Would that we still had AS exams! You really need some advice concerning the fact that he won't be submitting semester-by-semester grade reports. Obviously there is a way around this, as British students attend American universities. But I don't know what it is.

BTW, most if not all of these unis should have staff willing to help you. The concern with reaching beyond the Todhunter-Snoots is fairly universal.

Sunnyvale75 · 23/05/2022 13:42

@poetryandwine you have been so helpful.
I will show this to my son, he is the driving force behind this so I know that he will act on your advice. He will be very grateful for all your help.

OP posts:
poetryandwine · 23/05/2022 14:50

OP,

You are very kind. A hopefully final comment.

Your DS may decide he prefers a university environment. They have a certain excitement and it is appealing. I'm not pushing the elite colleges, but I am slightly concerned that the concept may not resonate with the British. They are rich and therefore able to offer good aid (though how much is available for international students is a different question). I just want to throw a few superb ones into the mix for your DS to consider, in the knowledge that they provide a wonderful education. Generally as good as the Ivies, not quite the equal of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Chicago. What you might be missing if a top student is the chance to taste formal postgraduate work as a senior. The trade off is more time to work individually with academic staff at whatever level suits you: Reading courses, project work, etc.

Every major employer and postgraduate institution in North America recognises them. British postgraduate tutors should also be fine with them, although the way British PG education is going I think one is probably better off in America or on the continent anyway, especially if one wants to land in a permanent job here. (Take a look at the PhD institutions of younger UK permanent academic staff in the STEM fields to see what I mean. These are lecturers, senior lecturers, readers, assistant and associate professors (at a few places) and professors.)

Amherst College, MA. - good international aid

Haverford (Men's) College, PA - good international aid
Sister College is Bryn Mawr

Reed College, OR - famously liberal and challenging, aid unknown

Williams College, MA - somewhat traditional, aid unknown

Oberlin College, OH - fairly liberal, aid unknown; I know someone who did UG here who just got a professorship at a high level Russell Group university

Harvey Mudd College, CA - aid unknown. STEM focus but part of the Claremont

College consortium. Each has a different focus and you can take course
units at other colleges

Sunnyvale75 · 23/05/2022 15:54

Thank you@poetryandwine . I have heard my son mention some of these college. He will investigate the aid etc.

OP posts:
QuidNon · 24/05/2022 15:38

Think you will definitely want to pay a visit to the shortlisted universities before you apply. They may look alike in terms of stats and reviews and youtube videos, but the likes of Stanford have a very different climate and feel when compared with the Uni of Chicago for example. The size and spread of NYU may also surprise you (51k+ students) when compared with the likes of Swathmore (1.4k students) etc etc.

When you build your shortlist, what you can do very effectively from home even before financial aid is to check the list of majors, depending on what your DC wants to study. You may be surprised that some of the biggest Ivys have very little in the way of life-sciences for example.

poetryandwine · 24/05/2022 15:55

Yes, I def should have mentioned Swarthmore (College)

Sunnyvale75 · 24/05/2022 20:21

Thank you all. We do hope to visit some but I"m sure if it will make it to all. He does have a favorite ( they have a course that he really likes).
We will definitely do some research on the other colleges suggested.

It acceptance rates are daunting! He feels very positive so fingers crossed.
Thank you for being so helpful.

OP posts:
QuidNon · 24/05/2022 23:42

It will be an interesting journey for sure. Please keep us posted on developments!

Pallisers · 24/05/2022 23:51

poetryandwine is giving you really excellent advice here.

I second looking at the good liberal arts colleges - I would add Williams, Bowdoin and possibly Colby to the list (Colby has an aid calculator on its website). I may be wrong but I think being male gives a slight advantage in applying to those. Also the advantage of not having graduate students on campus is undergrads are more likely to get to work on research etc with professors. My dd has worked with one professor on a research project and will work as a TA for a class for another in her senior year.

spotcheck · 24/05/2022 23:53

Check out the Fulbright Commission

spotcheck · 24/05/2022 23:54

www.fulbright.org.uk/

Sunnyvale75 · 25/05/2022 08:49

@Pallisers thank you for this , yes @poetryandwine has been so helpful.
I will also pass this on to my son , thank you @spotcheck .

I will keep definitely you posted @QuidNon .

OP posts:
poetryandwine · 25/05/2022 08:58

Wonderful stuff, @Pallisers, particularly the link to the Fulbright. I like your college suggestions very much, also.

sparkles18 · 26/05/2022 14:04

Have a look at the Sutton Trust, they have a section about studying in the US.
us.suttontrust.com/

Sunnyvale75 · 27/05/2022 09:03

Thank you for this @sparkles18 .

OP posts:
HoneyMobster · 22/06/2022 22:24

@poetryandwine and anyone else with insight! Any suggestions on SAT preparation? Just booked DS in to take it on 27 August. He has secured an academic'pre-read' at an Ivy and they've asked him to register to take either SAT or ACT. Another Ivy has asked him for all his academic info and to take the August SAT.

What length of prep is normally recommended?

JesusWeptLady · 22/06/2022 23:52

just to throw this in as a suggestion, if he got an astonishingly good undergrad degree in the UK from either Oxford or Cambridge, he'd be in line for funding at a US college for post-grad almost automatically.

poetryandwine · 23/06/2022 00:24

Hello, @HoneyMobster - I don’t know much about SAT prep. I think pupils and students themselves are likely the best resource. I suggest your DC look on some American forums for suggestions and I will do the same.

@JesusWeptLady, doctoral students in the US are routinely funded, mostly as teaching assistants. Unlike fellowships there is no citizenship requirement for this and international students with good scholarly backgrounds and good English are routinely funded. The usual funding period is either five or six years. The stipend is adequate for a single person who knows how to budget and includes a fee waiver.

Someone with astonishingly good results from Oxbridge should be competitive for research fellowships also. In fact the bar isn’t quite that high. Unfortunately in STEM, which is what I know, most of these are restricted to American citizens. At the postdoctoral level there are more unrestricted ones.

Cameleongirl · 23/06/2022 00:33

I'd definitely encourage your son to apply, but I'm going to be a wet blanket regarding financial aid, as it doesn't necessarily mean a full scholarship. One of my friend's daughters is exceptionally bright and was at a school for gifted students - she was offered a place at Georgetown, but even with the financial aid package, they still couldn't afford the remaining fees. Ivy League's really are extortionate, we're talking about $70-80K a year before financial aid, so even if he got significant aid, you may still have to find $20K annually, not to mention living expenses, etc.

She ended up going to another school on a scholarship.

Sorry, I know that's not what you want to hear. My DH went to Chicago for graduate school with a partial scholarship...we're still paying off the loans.

poetryandwine · 23/06/2022 17:07

@HoneyMobster, I have been looking at some guides to SAT prep. There is a consensus that actual practice SATs should be used sparingly, once or twice a week, under exam like conditions (hence timed). The best ones seem to be the ten available freely from the College Board itself. The Khan Academy practice tests also come very highly recommended. They are free but you need to register. They may provide you with some personalised feedback and study suggestions. Their materials were created in partnership with the College Board.

Playing on the fact that the College Board is located in Princeton, NJ, the Princeton Review ,which is a private company not associated with the CB, has a bank of good practice tests but one might pay for them. I found an article describing how a selective private school I happen to know used their practice tests and found the scores were low compared to the scores on the real thing (actually a Y11 version thereof Americans can take for other purposes) took very shortly afterwards. Possibly they don’t want to get hopes up, but it is also true that their main gig is a fee based SAT prep course. Who am I to wonder if there might be a connection? Actually the Princeton Review SAT prep course, while expensive, does have a very good reputation.

Kaplan’s is another generally reliable name in test preparation. I don’t know anything about their SAT prep specifically. If you. are in a major metropolitan area, I should think that some American expat forums could put you in touch with SAT tutors here. I’m sorry I don’t know what those forums would be.

For self study, Barron’s for English and MacGraw or McGraw for Maths come highly recommended (I believe both books offer both subjects, but these are said to be their strengths). These are available from Amazon

I also wonder whether you are looking into the optional essay based component of the SAT? I don’t know much about it so can’t offer advice, but it sounds intriguing.