GCSE choices for law degree

[traceyinrosso]

This may seem premature but does anyone know if it matters what subjects you take at GCSE for a very bright girl thinking of a career in law (thinks wants to be a barrister). Will soon need to make choices. Anyone in HE or Law would be glad of any advice

Personally I would encourage as wide a choice of GCSE options as possible, there is plenty of time to make choices later on.

Only in so much as she will need to consider which Alevels she wants to do.

I was planning to do law and took English, history and politics Alevels. I was at 6th form college and they also did law Alevel which I originally chose only to find out it was frowned upon by Russell Group university law faculties. Changed quickly and got offers and places though I changed my mind and became a teacher!

A good variety will always go down well so make sure there's a range of science, MFL and if possible, something intersting like environmental science.

DH is a lawyer and he always says that when they're recruiting graduates they are looking for something to make the CV stand out. Something intersting and quirky. All the applicants are bright with good grades so to get noticed she needs to offer or have done something different. Taking a MLF at Alevel helps. Doing Camp America or building a school during their Gap year (sounds naff but you get the idea!)

Also, they are always interested in candidates who did not do a law degree but rather took geology or marine biology or something then did a law conversion. DH did do law at uni but he knows lots of both solicitors and barristers who did degree+conversion. Just worth considering especially for very bright students.

doesn't matter at all. more important that it's subjects she's interested in and good at. as myredcardigan has said, Russell group law faculties tend to prefer traditional subjects, and A Level law would probably be seen as more of a hindrance than a help.

don't do Law. history is always good, english, sciences.

Oh, will watch this with interest. One of mine wants to be a barrister

Don't bother with Law at GCSE or A-Level - everything you need to know in a Law degree you do learn at university (or should) unlike say a medical degree where you need a certain amount of knowledge on entry other than an proven ability to study. Use that subject time to learn something else instead.

I'd advise them to keep a modern language as sometimes you can read Law with a language (and still have a qualifying law degree) which would be a bonus for applying to international firms later on - being bilingual is rarely a waste of time.

Make sure 'proper' subjects at A level. Law A level doesn't go down well.

Oxbridge look at GCSE results too, as do other top universities. Will need lots of As, also in decent subjects, I would imagine.

This is taken from the Cambridge Website:

Good applicants tend to have taken subjects at A level (or equivalent) that develop a careful, analytical approach to reading and which require them to present information in a way which is well structured and thoughtfully argued. In our experience, applicants with backgrounds in Mathematics and science subjects perform as well as those whose background is in humanities subjects. Many Colleges are pleased to see applicants with a mixed background in these subjects.

Applicants are not required to have studied Law at GCSE or A level. Those who have done so tend not to have any special advantage once they begin studying Law at university. Academic subjects other than Law will generally provide a solid foundation for the course, as well as give a desirable breadth of experience.

Churchill College has particularly stringent entrance requirements for Law. See the Churchill College website for details.

And this is the list of "A levels" to be avoided....

Accounting
Art and Design (see also Architecture)
Business Studies (see also Economics)
Communication Studies
Dance
Design and Technology (see also Engineering)
Drama/Theatre Studies
Film Studies
Health and Social Care
Home Economics
Information and Communication Technology
Leisure Studies
Media Studies
Music Technology
Performance Studies
Performing Arts
Photography
Physical Education
Sports Studies
Travel and Tourism

Sorry, missed out this bit:

We recommend that to maximise your potential course choice at Cambridge, you select at least two traditional academic subjects among your A levels. Certain A level subjects are considered essential or useful for a number of courses at Cambridge, therefore choosing one or more of these will help you keep your higher education options open. These subjects include:
Chemistry
English Literature
History
Mathematics
Languages
Physics
Other subjects that also facilitate course choice at Cambridge include Further Mathematics and Biology.

Sorry, missed out this bit:

We recommend that to maximise your potential course choice at Cambridge, you select at least two traditional academic subjects among your A levels. Certain A level subjects are considered essential or useful for a number of courses at Cambridge, therefore choosing one or more of these will help you keep your higher education options open. These subjects include:
Chemistry
English Literature
History
Mathematics
Languages
Physics
Other subjects that also facilitate course choice at Cambridge include Further Mathematics and Biology.

Modern languages.
Pure sciences.

To add to my earlier post; Take as wide a range of traditional GCSEs as possible.

Take 3 traditional A-Levels one of which I really do think should be history. A good predicted grade in history shows the admissions tutors that the candidate has the analytical approach required.

If the candidate is good at languages then I'd advise taking French. But only take it if confident of getting at least a B.

As a third A-level, I'd advise either a science or English Lit, depending upon where the candidate's strength lies.

If she wants to be a barrister then she needs to be looking at either Oxbridge or Russell Group. Taking law at an old Poly would seriously hinder her career opportunities.

Definitely traditional A levels. DH is a barrister/judge and read history at Cambridge after A Levels in English, History and RE, then did CPE/BVC. I'd estimate only one of his bar colleagues did their initial degree at a non Russell Group uni, most are Oxbridge. 50% or so did a law degree, the rest did another degree then CPE/BVC.

I have an LLB and used to work at the Law School of a Russell Group University.

Agree with what everyone else has posted: traditional subjects that she is interested in - no point in studying subjects she hates as she is unlikely to get the high grades required for entry.

I have standard grades (Scottish GCSEs) in English, Maths, Biology, Chemistry, Economics, French, Geography, History (and Drama - was actually advised to take this as was so shy - did no good though!)

Highers (scottish qualifications, lower than A levels but what is used for uni entry) in English, Maths, Chemistry, Economics, Geography, History and Modern Studies.

It was many moons ago that I applied to uni but I got in everywhere I applied with these subjects.

Thank you so much everyone - please excuse the ignorance but what is a Russell group Uni? I am guessing we are talking old traditional Unis like Durham and not Preston Poly (no offence to Central Lancs Uni or whatever it is now called in my old home town !)She is in top set for French and Maths (not set for other subjects) and is learning German too. An added extra is that being in the "gifted and talented" cohort she has extra curricular Latin lessons which they are hoping to progress to GCSE but this is a new venture for the school.She is also good at History and English in fact the only thing she struggles with (in her words not the teachers ie she's not automatically top of class !)is Geopgraphy. We want to encourage her to think big and "go for it" if that's want she really wants but I don't know whether picking something which requires fantastic A level grades is too much pressure. Does anyone know how many choices you get at UCAS these days ie can you apply for somewhere needing straight As and have a backup offer somewhere needing lower grades ? Once again thanks everyone - am staggered by response.

Russell Group

University of Birmingham
University of Bristol
University of Cambridge
Cardiff University
University of Edinburgh
University of Glasgow
Imperial College London
King's College London
University of Leeds
University of Liverpool
LSE
University of Manchester
Newcastle University
University of Nottingham
Queen's University Belfast
University of Oxford
University of Sheffield
University of Southampton
University College London
University of Warwick

I'm currently doing law conversion course. I did history undergraduate at Oxford, an MSc at LSE and now doing the Graduate Diploma in Law (used to be known as the CPE), followed by another year, then I join the law firm that's sponsoring me through the two years.

If your DD is interested in law but also other subjects, I'd certainly recommend that she considers doing an undergraduate degree in a subject she will really enjoy - history, English Literature etc - then do the law conversion courses afterwards (which add another two years in total). Funding is often available for the conversion courses. Also, it's certainly easy to undertake a career in law without an undergraduate law degree - hasn't hindered me in any way.

I'd echo what other posters have been saying about Russell Group universities. It'd be worth looking at the rankings of the various universities and their law departments. Some are stronger on international law (LSE for example - they often offer a year abroad if combined with a language).

I didn't do a law degree - instead took the opportunity to study a subject in depth which I was unlikely to have the opportunity to do again (in my case History), knowing that to qualify to do law would only take one extra year than if I had done a law degree.

LOTS of lawyers don't do a law degree, and in fact the firm I trained at actively looked for candidates who had done different degrees, as it considered it gave them a wider breadth of knowledge, rather than focussing too narrowly on law very early on to the exclusion of all else.

Why do a law degree if you are planning to spend the next 20-30 years in law? Take the chance to spend 3 years learning about something else. Trad subject probably better though - can't see law firms being attracted to a degree in golf course design (though one trainee at my firm did have a degree in drama!)

rockinsockbunnies, don't all graduates whether or not they have done a law degree still have to do the LPC?

I did the law conversion course. I studied English and Philosophy at degree level at Bristol University.

I did English Literature, History, French and General Studies A levels (Gen Studies a bit of a freebie but Bristol was actually the only uni not prepared to include it in offer - other good unis did including Durham and York.

The most important thing in all honesty is that she gets the best grades possible, so that means choosing the subjects she is best at and enjoys most.

Law is not an "arts" subject. Plenty of lawyers come from a science background - the partner in charge of my department is on a second career after 20 years as a research chemist.

Yes, all graduates law or non law have to do the LPC. Non law graduates have an extra one (or two if part time) years study doing the CPE/GDL.

I would definitely agree that if the extra year at uni can be afforded, don't study law as an undergraduate.

All the law students at Bristol were so pompous.

Agree with grades. She should check what A level grades are currently required by good universities. Also bear in mind that large law firms (which are the ones most likely to pay for the postgraduate diploma and LPC if that is a consideration) will as a minimum want a 2:1 (and will bin any cv below that without looking further), and do get sniffy about which universities tha applicants went to.

Hi Tracey. Firstly, she'll be able to put 8 (i think) choices on her UCAS form. Unlike when I did an UCCA form, the UCAS ones ask for uni choices in alphabetical order which means that only she will know her preference. From any offers she gets, she will then make two choices, her first choice and a back up choice. Schools usually advise the second choice to be a lower grade offer in case a student doesn't make their predicted grades. If she applies to Oxbridge and passes their exam, she may even be given and unconditional offer (ie not dependent on her Alevel grades)

Russell group universities are a group of about 20 research based universities and yes, they are the red brick and places like Warwick, Durham and Exeter.

Taking Latin at GCSE sounds good and will always come in handy in law.

I'd still advocate taking history A-level. It would be good preparation for studying law and goes down well on the application form.

If she's bright and able and it's what she wants to do then I'd encourage her all the way. Just let her know that you support her and that she can talk to you if she ever feels like it's getting too much.

Good luck!

I didn't think Oxbridge did an entrance exam anymore? When I applied they didn't, it was interview and grades.

Was rejected by Cambridge .