GCSE choices for law degree

[traceyinrosso]

This may seem premature but does anyone know if it matters what subjects you take at GCSE for a very bright girl thinking of a career in law (thinks wants to be a barrister). Will soon need to make choices. Anyone in HE or Law would be glad of any advice

If a student has done undergraduate law and wants to go down the solicitor route, then they skip the CPE/GDL and go straight to the LPC (Legal Practice Course).

If a law graduate wants to become a barrister, then they take the BVC rather than the LPC (Bar vocational course).

If someone has a non-law undergraduate degree, then they take the CPE/GDL and then either the LPC or BVC depending on what route they wish to go down.

Georgimama, you may be right. I guess I'm showing my age. Just remember one guy in my year with a EE offer after passing.

I think that stopped in about 1995.

This year is the first year of the new UCAS system. You can apply for 5 subjects (no more than 4 medicine!) including 1 Oxbridge course - you cannot apply to both Oxford & cambridge.

There is no Oxbridge exam, but each college/course has it's own papers set at interview. Law students will probably have to take the LNAT

Ah yes, I went to uni in 92.

Oxford has introduced certain exams in some subjects, to try and differentiate between the candidates, all of whom have straight A predictions.

My knowledge is patchy, since the tests were introduced after I'd started at Oxford, but I remember being shown a test for history which looked fairly mean. I'm just thankful I never had to take such a paper!

Not sure if Cambridge have also introduced these things.

Sounds much more simple these days. We had UCCA and PCAS forms and we had to list choices in preference order which meant a university may not offer because you had put them as last choice.

I think I was in either the last year or penultimate year of the Oxford entrance exam in 1995.

As a former solicitor - I agree that a non-law degree plus CPE is a fairly common route - and I felt, having gone straight through from uni to LPC to training contract, having a few years extra life experience would have benefited me.

Only just spotted this. Dh is a partner in a big City law firm, so I just asked him what he'd be looking for when interviewing potential trainees.

As some others have said, Law GCSE is a big turn off. Likewise less academic subjects such as theatre studies, media studies, PE. He reckoned he'd overlook one of 'those dodgy subjects' if a candidate also had top grades in more demanding subjects like Latin. Languages are always a bonus in the City. He reckons the best candidates - the ones who get offered jobs at the end of training contracts and go on to do well - have more often than not got history or language degrees from good universities, rather than law degrees.

Thanks myredcardigan she is bright and has time yet to change her mind but I am conscious of not wanting to be "pushy parent" and certainly want her to enjoy her teenage years as well as working hard at school. She dances out of school and would like to do dance GCSE as some light relief but is keen to concentrate on subjects which will look good on her application form. She is at a very good state school but am not sure if the old boys network is still very much in force in Law schools and whether not being public school will be a disadvantage

I was a solicitor for a big law firm, and helped with recruiting, and apart from be amazed at the standard of applicants (I'd never get a job now!!) they were very hot on non law first degrees.

Any good first degree will help - I'd advise her to do something she is interested in. Having said that, I did the CPE and sometimes felt a lack of depth on case law and research skills - though that might have been just me Otherwise, can only echo the very good advice here.

Actually there is still an exam to pass for a few subjects at Oxbridge - Cambridge maths requires STEP papers for example. And just one or two colleges still make a few matriculation (2E) offers. But generally speaking, yes all that went out with the ark.

Being at a good state school will not hinder her application. If anything, bright students from state schools are favoured over bright students from the independent sector or so the rumour goes.

However, a state school is more likely to encourage her to apply for a law first degree because it looks good on their statistics. But do note that many lawyers on here including Ohdear's DH and my own DH both having influence on graduate selection have said that candidates who chose another academic first degree then do the conversion are looked upon favourably. Also note how many posters on here have suggested taking a language if she thinks she can do very well in it. That is not to say she should discount law as an option.

I've just asked DH about the dance GCSE and he said if it was one of many "lame" (his words) GCSEs he would bin her CV but interstingly, if it was sat alongside 9 other A* and A grade GCSEs which were all traditional and included latin then he'd assume she had an easygoing/lighthearted side to complement her academic side. BUT...You can't win because he also said that he knew others that would still bin a CV with dance GCSE on it regardless of what else she offered.

He says the trouble is that these days every CV that comes through is of an astonishingly high quality that those sorting through them need to apply some sort of criteria. So for him, dance may stand out as intersting, for others it would rule her out.

This is probably not at all helpful but I thought I'd pass on his thoughts.

My daughters are doing law. They did traditional GCSEs

I would ensure she does
Maths
English lang
English lit
History
2 or 3 sciences - say Chemistry, Physics not just one combined science
A foreign language or two - so latin and French would be good
Geography but if she hates it no requirement

Then say music or RE as a slightly different one.

No need to do masses of them. 9 is enough.

Never do law GCSE or A level. I used to mark the papers for A level law and it's for absolute thickos to be honest.

For A level do which 3 or 4 she will get As in which are normal proper A levels, nothing with studies in its name. My daughters did things like English lit, History etc one did Chemistry A level, one Geography.

And the mention of the extra year and the LPC hopefully a law firm or barrister chambers will pay for those years if she applies in time and is good enough which they did for my older daughter and hopefully will with the second.

For GCSE, stick to mainly traditional subjects. English, Maths, triple Science if poss (or double if not), modern foreign language, history and or geography.
As far as A Level choices are concerned, you might be interested to read this very recent report: The Hard Truth about ?Soft? Subjects.

My father is a High Court judge and sits on the pupillage committee at Lincolns Inn. He says:

If you must do a "lighter" GCSE do music, art or a difficult D&T subject.
Good grades in the 2 Englishes, maths, an essay humanity (history or geog), at least 2 of the 3 sciences and a MFL.
Latin weighs very well - particularly with the Old Boys Crowd (who unfortunately are the ones selecting for pupillages at the Inns)

Philosophy and ethics would look good as an AS level
A science, a language and a humanity would be the ideal combination because it shows the candidate has the capacity to think and analyse, communicate a point clearly in a variety of ways and structure an argument.

Interesting but academic subject for a first degree at a good university plus conversion is a good idea. He recommends Birmingham (either Uni of or College of Law) for the conversion incidentally...so possibly avoid UoB for undergrad if she's looking seriously at the conversion there. They like people with a variety of academic backgrounds (ie. 2 different unis) as it shows exposure to different ways of thinking. If she wants to be a barrister then a literary/history/language degree would be a good idea. For a solicitor she should apparently think about the area she would like to go into so to work in the legal side of Mergers and Acquisitions a degree in Economics might be a good bet but if she wants to go to Shell a geology or environmental science degree could be beneficial. Some sectors are apparently quite jargon heavy and Daddy says that as a judge he likes people who clearly understand the complicated documents with lots of jargon and can 'translate' them!

Psychology degrees are apparently frowned upon though, which is interesting because I would have thought they'd be fairly helpful!

Other things that look good on CVs: debating, both the traditional style and things like Model United Nations; involvement in a student paper; involvement in student politics (again strong likelihood of public speaking...); something quirky and interesting to a high level

History defo