Is a masters really becoming the norm?

[Terracotta57]

DC who is at Oxbridge, and about to go into final year, feels that many are planning to do masters (and this is in humanities / social science fields not stem, so not funded). I know that the job market may be pushing many to do masters (and of course many others will choose to purely from love of their subject), but I'm also surprised it seems so common given the increasing weight of student loans and exorbitant cost (especially at the top unis where fees alone can be over £20k). Is it really becoming the new norm and does that mean that even an oxbridge degree isn't able to compete if there isn't a masters attached to it?

@Ceramiq Most do at UCL. Overseas often double as you would expect.

I looked at the UCL Public Policy MSC, as it was what I did 20 years ago…Fees then around £5k from what I remember. Fees now from £11.6k 😱

Loans were very different back then too. You couldn’t get standard student loans for postgrad study, so I ended up getting a Career Development Loan from Barclays, paying it back over 5 years. I think interest rates were really low back then too, so I was then able to get a standard loan (at better rates) to pay it off in one go, then paying the lower monthly amount (£180 per month as I recall) for the rest of the loan term. A completely different world!

@curliegirlie Not sure if the fees you quote are a typo but fees this year for that course are £21,500 for the current year.

No, I couldn’t see the fees for the actual course when I looked, so quoted the lower level from this…£21.5k is absolutely bonkers though. My brain doesn’t compute!?

I find it terrifying that, at these prices, this is starting to become a necessity to compete on the same level that a good 1st or 2.1 would have put you 10-15 years ago. I am not talking about people who would have chosen to do a masters anyway (or those for whom it has always been been standard eg engineering), but those who now see it as the only way to get a job.

@Terracotta57 The MEng 4 year courses are undergrad pricing though. Anyone paying double is mad! Well unless they only have a BEng and need the masters. Younger people should not plan the separate masters route and it’s not necessary either.

I’m not convinced that doing a masters puts you in a better position for graduate jobs - unless the job spec specifically asks for the masters eg engineering. Having just gone through this with DC, for graduate entry level jobs the key hurdle was acing the online tests and recorded AI interviews. In the majority of cases they also wanted to see stand-out extra-curriculars to show leadership, teamwork and interest in the particular industry. [As an aside it’s funny how university applications aren’t interested in extra curriculars whereas for job applications they were v important.]

I did see in DC’s cohort a lot of people doing a masters because they didn’t really know what they wanted to do so it wasn’t particularly targeted. At the high-achieving end a lot of people are prepared to pay £ to buy a masters at Oxbridge and LSE - particularly if they missed out at undergrad. Those seem to be the brands that people want to get on their LinkedIn and think will benefit them in the jobs market.

@Notanorthener Well they aren’t entirely buying it. At the elite unis you aren’t just walking in off the street. Like in undergrad degrees, elite unis give an edge.

When I did mine it was because I did a humanities degree and wanted to get into “policy work”. Whilst that was a slightly vague term in my head at the time (and certainly now, as a civil servant, I wouldn’t want to go anywhere near pure policy jobs - I’m far happier at the social research end, providing the evidence to try and make policies make sense and ensure assumptions and policy proposals are evidence based!), as it turned out the research methods components of my MSc proved vital to getting into my current career. I’m not sure the humanities research methods of my undergrad - or even my History PhD - would have cut it.

@curliegirlie We know dc who want to be involved in “policy” and none have got anywhere near it after masters. One has the war studies masters from Kings and another a “double” masters in policy from Maastricht. Others have failed to get into the civil service as it’s ludicrously competitive. Essentially they don’t really know much at 22-23 and no experience of anything. These are just vague notions and masters feed into dreams.

There nothing wrong with it as an aspiration, and plenty of organisations other than the civil service have policy roles (think tanks, third sector orgs, charities, trade unions etc). But it’s definitely one where it helps to get volunteering experience etc. If they’re interested in swerving into social research there are also loads of consultancies (Ipsos, Kantar etc) that have SR roles.

Yes, Civil Service is very competitive but there are avenues for entry other than Fast Stream, so it’s well worth them keeping an eye on the Civil Service Jobs website. Being fresh out of uni isn’t necessarily a mark against them, as university-based examples can be used in the behaviour and experience questions, it’s more about how they can frame them.

It's been like this for over 15 years ... she says with feeling. You need the Masters, the travelling and languages, but most of all the work experience. Any work will help. Work for Royal Mail at Christmas, a local garden centre, the hospitality industry ... but work.

@BrandiedAromatics You don’t need a masters for many roles which is why the majority don’t do them! My dd is a barrister - she’s not got one. Better paid than most.

This isn’t so true now with many places using AI for the initial sift due to the sheer volume of applications. AI is looking for key words such as job titles and direct experience. While other work experience is always useful it’s nigh on impossible to demonstrate transferable skills in an application now.

In both situations this is not a good thing. It means that we will go back to the top professions - either top paid, or top intelligence - being dominated by those from wealthier backgrounds.

I wouldn’t say it was much different 10-15 years ago, I graduated in the financial crisis and did a masters to make myself more employable. It was quite common then. At my work we specify masters but it is STEM. Having an Oxbridge degree doesn’t often lead to better employability nowadays. We don’t give preference to Oxbridge.

OP, did you say your DC is at Oxbridge and considering a Masters? If they can do one at Imperial or LSE it could well be worth it - not so much for the course itself, but for the networking opportunities that are actually career-orientated (rather than orientated towards academia, which was what DC found at Oxbridge). For instance, at Imperial, jobs seem to advertised that don't get advertised anywhere else. They need to take full advantage of the networking opportunities and forums and internships that come about, just from being in that space. Use these to develop a strong LinkedIn profile. It really does make a difference if they can approach things this way - eg. I'm seeing starting salaries of over £100k, rather than £50k or thereabouts which is what most Oxbridge students with undergrad degrees seem to start on (this is based on what I'm observing of DC and friends in recent years). They are targetted for jobs, rather than having to do countless applications.

Completely agree @Overthebow . We already have a situation where those whose parents can fund undergrad are paying significantly less for their degree in the long run. Adding masters costs on top of an undergrad loan is a massive undertaking unless there is a very lucrative career in the pipeline.

@storyinside yes oxbridge but humanities/social sciences area. LSE is an option I agree (it was their insurance for undergrad) but the costs are a real barrier and at the moment they don't have a clear enough idea of what they would want to do. Luckily they were lucky enough to get a good internship this summer so that is at least something.

What is their undergrad OP - is it HSPS or Geog, something like that?

sorry @GreenFries I meant quote/tag you not @Overthebow re costs!

I agree
Both my DD’s have graduated but I advised them not to rush into doing their Masters.
Panic masters are definitely a thing

@Lampzade Of course. Puts off job hunting for a bit longer. Expensive solution though.

Our youngest DC is currently doing a Masters, as did our other children. My nieces and nephews have all done Masters degrees. It is EXCEPTIONALLY important to have a game plan when doing a Masters as they are expensive and there are a lot of truly rubbish ones, even at top universities.