Woke university courses

[StripyCarpets]

I’m really bored of it.
I did the open day rounds with DD a couple of years ago when she was looking at a science subject. The subject itself was largely untainted as far as the content was concerned but the open days were heavy on the environment; understandable but also not necessarily relevant to all teaching in this subject. The talks from students were excruciating; nerdy kids talking about how they do drag etc and so many LGBTQIA+++ flags and signs everywhere. This was tolerable because it wasn’t affecting the actual course.
This year we’re looking at PPE (etc) for DS and obviously there’s so much scope for total capture, but I was really shocked by Bristol. The course leader was a Green Party fan boy, he explained what critical thinking was and demonstrated he doesn’t know what critical thinking is or how to do it. He explained that as well as teaching about politics students would taught how to make a difference in the real world. This is activist school. They can learn thus on Twitter.
If I was an employer, I think I’d be wary of employing a PPE graduate from Bristol. What I saw indicated that students would be indoctrinated rather than educated. It’s depressing, it’s expensive and it’s low quality.
Warwick was a completely different ballgame; very high calibre.

Bristol doesn’t have a PPE course, only a combo of two of the subjects.
Another reason to steer your DC elsewhere

@somekindofBristol PPE starts 2027 entry

Why are you wasting time griping about a course your YP won't apply for? I think you'd be better spending your time looking into courses at places that appeal more.

Open day lectures don’t always get it right. Doesn’t mean the course isn’t solid. Your child can choose not to get contaminated by the bad man saying they want to tackle real world problems.

@Pinkissmartyou might be right about his talk not being representative of the course, but the fact that his talk was espousing radical left wing politics does indicate a certain tone. These people don’t even realise they are being ideological because it’s the water they’re swimming in.
All of us are interested in making the world a better place, we just might not agree on how to get there.

That's what students are supposed to be like! Let's not wish for students who act like they're already middle-aged

I know what you mean, OP. We went to Edinburgh Open Day and everywhere and all the staff were wearing something Pride related. My daughter is a GC lesbian and felt it was too much for her - the flyer for the feminist society said transgender and cis in the first line.

They did however have JK Rowling listed as an alumna so that was something! The sports person we chatted to seemed to understand that we were looking for single sex sport not gender so there may be some hope. I said to DD that she should look at the course and to know there will be people of every viewpoint there.

It's the fact that his talk was espousing radical left wing politics does indicate a certain tone.

Maybe but I can remember that going on at Uni's, certainly some more than others, 50 years ago..(gulp....where did that time go)...even if you were on a science/maths course there was no escape.

As @Qualitypinnacle says that's sort of what students are supposed to be like.

Good luck finding a PPE course that avoids ideology.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/feb/23/ppe-oxford-university-degree-that-rules-britain

includes some discussion of perceptions of bias in the Oxford PPE, though opinions vary on whether it’s vaguely centrist or liberal, and whether the economic strand is more conservative than the political. One commenter says the students in his experience were vaguely leftist, but anyone I knew who was reading PPE was a raving Tory.

Were they lanyards? I work at a uni and there is the opportunity and some gentle encouragement to wear a rainbow lanyard in solidarity with the Pride movement. People either do or don't choose to wear them, but they're quite common among people managers in particular.

@SilverliningHunter I really feel for your DD. It must be infuriating for her. I think Maeve Halligan’s observation about it being impossible to talk about feminism or women’s issues anymore, without first talking about men is salient. Good luck to her.

I agree that this is what students are like, and I certainly was. I’m talking about the adults in the room. The adult academics at Bristol I encountered were not serious, intelligent people.

Yes everyone was in a rainbow lanyard, table decor, banners, flags. It is Pride month so to be expected but the proliferation of it felt quite oppressive re freedom of speech tbh. Accommodation helpers said rooms could not be allocated on single sex basis (if DD wanted all female dorm) as students self id etc.

DD follows Maeve and did ask about societies hence our awareness of the feminist society there centering men, she was told students can set up their own new societies but need 20 supporters. I’m not sure Maeve, who is incredibly brave and articulate, has 20 student members at Cambridge but hopefully she has. I think universities need to be beacons of learning how to disagree well and argue your point.

Sure. People who don't agree with your political and idealogical views are unintelligent. Because, of course, you arrived at your position through pure facts and reason therefore it's axiomatically true that anyone who disagrees must not just be wrong, they've got to be stupid.

Or, just maybe, they're not the only ones who need to work on their critical thinking skills.

When we go to these events, sometimes we use the hypothetical point being a Reform supporter as the route into a discussion/principle as that seems more acceptable than saying GC!

"science ... was largely untainted as far as the content was concerned but the open days were heavy on the environment; understandable but also not necessarily relevant to all teaching in this subject"

That may be partly because they are appealing to what many older teens are passionate about. However, for hopefully obvious reasons, many science research grants are heavily dependent on demonstrating positive environmental impact, so it is inevitably a common theme.

I went to several Civil Engineering open days and environmentally conscious design and build is a huge theme there, and more generally in the industry, led by the Institute of Civil Engineers. That isn't 'woke', its a sensible and necessary reaction to global warming.

Yes universities tend to be liberal. The fact that you have different politics is neither here nor there really. This is what’s important to the current students and faculty.

Your son wants to do Philosophy as part of his degree - basically thinking, reasoning, debating different ideas and ethics and worldviews. He’s going to do pretty badly if you pour him full of the idea that anything ‘woke’ is a waste of thought.

Ah, you have a worldview, everyone else has an ideology.

@warmawhetheryes, I agree with all this.

Bristol is a top university. I strongly doubt they are indoctrinating their students. You are basing your opinions on a few talks and a few flags.

I would expect the course is extremely rigorous. What does the syllabus and reading list look like? That would be a more objective way to judge it.

@GasperyJacquesRobertsobviously that isn’t what I said.

Bristol has been trying actively to widen their reach in recent years after criticism of being primarily white, MC and public school. What you witness on an open day is more likely driven by this than anything deeper.

I graduated from Bristol almost 35 years ago. It is a top university for teaching and research and its research and innovation are respected around the world. I was a rare candidate from a state comprehensive, in those days.

You’ll be shocked to know that there were plenty of people with pink and blue hair there, loudly espousing what you would describe as far left ideology even then, wearing natural deodorant and starting highly activist societies. I have a vague memory of a Communist candidate being prominent in the Union presidency race.

Young people are by nature ideological, they hold strong views on what they see as right and wrong, and tend to be idealistic until the world knocks some of the corners off. University is the time when they experiment with different personas, explore and embrace new ideas, explore a wider world than the one they’ve lived in through childhood. They need time to explore, mature, find out who they are and what they believe in. They don’t need to be clones of their middle aged parents from the day they reach adulthood.

@LesSanglotsLonguesDesViolonsDAutomneyes, I am aware of this as I was in Bristol in 1990 and I had pink hair and was involved in all the grants not loans activism and occupations. Also, if that wasn’t the case I would be aware of that due to the fact that I was young, and now I’m not.
IMO the course being described by the Politics lecturer at Bristol was juvenile and lacked intellectual rigor. This was his opportunity to showcase the course and he failed. The presentation was of course a snapshot. On the other hand Warwick had exactly the same opportunity and demonstrated an entirely different ethos of interrogating complicated ideas and issues in a critical rather than ideological way.
I just prefer the latter.

You seem just as ideological as the no doubt highly intelligent and educated university staff you deride . You just want your ideology to be the right one and theirs to be the wrong one. Your DD is the one going. You sound like you are a bit over invested.

Bristol ahs always been known for left wing politics. Warwick has always been more staid and conventional (although I'd advise you to steer clear of its film department!). Both are excellent, top calibre universities.