DS got a third after struggling at uni, how limiting is it?

[Misthios]

DS started uni in 2021 and for the first year his studies were entirely online. DS has significant challenges with neurodiversity - properly diagnosed dyspraxia and ADD, almost certainly autism too. His mental health was very poor and I was very pleased he was living here at home as he simply would not have coped otherwise. He finally crashed and burned after his third year (4 year degrees in Scotland) and was placed in academic suspension for a year. We had the most awful year with him trying to get him formally assessed and medicated for his ADD, he started on anti depressants, found a tutor to help in the subject he struggled with, and finally got through and into his final year.

This year has also been a struggle, the support from uni is just not there, funding in Scottish unis is a massive issue and he was not having check ins with tutors or disability support or anything. It was all very hard for him but long story short he has had his degree results today and got a third.

He is very upset. We have told him how proud we are of him for sticking at it and going back to finish his degree and the class of thart degree doesn't matter. He does not want a high flying job. He just wants to work in a lab. I am just worried that with the very competitive jobs market that he is going to struggle to get anything and will end up thinking that uni was a waste of time.

And I thought the pre-school years were the hard ones.

DS1 messed about at uni and ended up with an ordinary degree. He now has a senior management job in a multi-national. Who knows what else he might have achieved had he done better. DS2 has a first class honours and a merit at Master’s - works in a minimum wage lifestyle job. It’s less about the grades and more about them finding their place and applying themselves in it. Both are happy and for now, where they want to be.

You must be immensely proud of what he has achieved despite his struggles. Only time will tell what he goes on to do with his life but he has achieved a degree and no one can ever take that away from him.

Maureen Lipman in the BT advert 1988 :) "He gets an ology and says he's failed! You get an ology and you're a scientist"

I simply wouldnt put the grade on the cv. Instead use space to say what elements of the degree were most interesting to him.

I guess he just needs a foot in the door. Certainly in the past you could get into lab work without a degree at all, then work your way up.
Various options as pp have said. Environmental testing, water companies, agricultural, pharmaceutical, hospitals.
Bioinformatics is the cross over of IT and biology.

Didnt Prince Charles get a 3rd?

Many would argue he's never had a proper job!!

In "my day" when I graduated 30 years ago, 3rds weren't uncommon. And neither was leaving at the end of 3rd year in Scotland with an Ordinary, not an Honours. But that seems to have changed hugely.

Not always true. I have an ordinary after some mental health issues. I did a masters and got a distinction. Not held me back at all. No one cares.

While I agree and your son has done so well considering the circumstances he may not get the opportunity to explain them if a potential employer sees 1 3rd and just bins his application
Its a shame as we are all so much more than exam results but getting a job is so hard these days and he will be competing with DC who got a first I imagine

@Misthios has he gotten his formal diagnoses yet? I think those are going to be hugely helpful because they will help him to explain all of the positives of his degree (e.g. perseverance, resilience), and will also help him to explain the challenges, and therefore why he is and should be proud of the 3rd. I am not sure if this is feasible, but I wonder if some online sessions with a company like Genius Within (I'm not affiliated with them at all, but one of my colleagues has worked with the person who founded it, and I really enjoyed her book). That might help him to recognise how to leverage his neurodivergent skills as positives, both within himself, and as a means of identifying the importance of those ways of working/thinking in relation to his desired job of working in a lab.

I would agree if he was applying for graduate schemes. That has always been the case that they have wanted firsts or 2:1. But he's not - a lot of the job he's seen just says "degree" or similar. I will be recommending he leaves the class of degree off.

I agree, work experience is > 3rd…sorry OP, even if it’s lab work I know nhs grad schemes min is a 2:2 and it’s very competitive. Maybe try and find some local labs he could work in, once they see his work ethic it may help. However a 3rd does suggest he may struggle in terms of workload. Lab work increasingly has a lot of admin work, will this be the right fit? Overall grad schemes may not the the way in with a 3rd, but maybe lab apprenticeship. Whatever he does I wish him the best, a 3rd is not the end of the world, it will be a bit harder to break into things initially, but he will I’m sure.

But you’ve proven the point, you went and did a masters and got a distinction, which, well done by the way!!! but without the masters you may have found it hard with a 3rd.

So much helpful stuff has already been said, so I'm going to focus on CV and job applying stuff...(I'm a Director at my company and do the hiring stuff for entry level and junior hires alongside my main role). We don't have lab roles, but speaking to friends, a lot of my experience seems to be common, so hopefully this is helpful.

We advertised at the start of the year, and our successful two people started in March. I regularly wish I could speak to the ~200 people who applied and tell them some very valuable information (well, I think it's valuable - appreciate not all of them would think it's valuable....).

This is what I would say....

"110 of you sent in your CV when our job advert says to use the application form attached. Why did you do that? I didn't even look at your experience and skills, as I now know for sure that one of them isn't attention to detail and focus. Your application was immediately moved to the rejection folder."

To the ~90 who did the application form (and before anyone comes at me, the form is super basic - just your details, a short statement about what you'd bring to the role, and then space for education and experience. The main reason we do it is to make sure everyone answers the same questions for a level playing field, plus we can output these to a spreadsheet and review them far more easily)....

"Around 20 of you wrote a statement that is over 100 words. We explicitly say the answer has to be 100 words only. Did you know, we didn't even look at your application?"

"Of the 70 who sent in an application that did what we asked for....many of you couldn't use the main word for our industry in the statement or refer to it in any way, so your application felt irrelevant. We really just need someone to be able to show things like 'your company is an estate agency....I would like to work in a estate agency' (for example, but it's amazing how simple it is to show that you know what the company does and say you'd like to do that).

"Of the 30-ish who genuinely got down to our shortlist, we then looked carefully at education (yes, including degree classification), work experience, and your statement in more depth. None of you were excluded (for interviewing) for one SINGLE negative thing. Some people with lower degree grades got through because their 100-word statement really captured what we do (they'd read our website.....), or because they had really interesting work experience; or, interestingly, because they had work experience that wasn't very relevant to ours field, but they'd made it relevant in the description of their role, and showed the transferable skills."

Appreciate this is long, but what I'm trying to say is that some (not all) employers aren't asking a lot - they just want applicants to show that they understand the kind of role they're applying for, can write a line or two about their skills, and show (not tell) attention to detail and focus.

A degree in pharmacology is impressive regardless of grade.

I'd focus on confidence, social skills and getting some experience in anything science related - school/college technician, pharmacy assistant, bank agency or whatever.

It needn’t hold him back. Undiagnosed dyslexia, ADHD and autism meant I graduated with an ordinary degree. After receiving the dyslexia diagnosis and accessing Disabled Students’ Allowances, I went on to achieve a first in my master’s degree. I also completed a PGCE and thrived in teaching, progressing quickly. Working in organisations with strong expectations around behaviour allowed me to excel.

As my masters degree is so strong I’ve dropped my original degree from my cv.

That's not how it works. Recruiters don't just hyperfocus on one thing. If there is relevant work experience, volunteering, other schemes and qualifications gained, it certainly wouldn't go straight in the bin. CPD goes a long way. As does a strong personal statement.

I think this is where some early graduates with top grades can get frustrated. A top grade doesn't give you an automatic pass to shortlisting. The same as a 'poor' grade not meaning a CV is fast tracked to the bin.

Could he ask his old school if he cld do a few weeks/a term work experience as a lab assistant to build up his cv and get a good reference?

Thank you very much for posting this, and thanks to your co for bothering to set out the feedback.

It is interesting to me (an oldie) and, I imagine, hugely useful to young people.

If you have a child applying, show him or her the post!

This is not a work area I'm familiar with OP but having helped my son with job applications for apprenticeships recently we really made all job applications personal & I do think work experience/voluntary work etc really helped. I got a 2:2 & I found my degree really hard going but it was in Social Work where my job is more about people skills, empathy etc & I know I do well in this area. I really hope your son is given the chance to demonstrate his capabilities & wish him well x

He got through uni facing huge adversity. Honestly only certain jobs will limit him in what he got, but they will be the ones that are extremely high achieving and have everybody looking for spots! The everyday ones will just see that he finished and it will be in his interview, personality and knowledge x

This is a great idea. Has he also considered a bit of GSCE science tutoring? I feel if he can get into the workplace on any footing, he'll be on his way. Also I don't think anyone considers degree class once you are at work, and we are desperate for science graduates. Good luck, OP. I think DS should be proud of himself.

How anyone can say a 3rd is worse than no degree. With no degree you would have a gap on the CV and have to say you failed.

I was "blessed" with a 2.2 years ago. Ended up with a good career, but it didn't arrive automatically.

So ai have a degree, a 2.1 and successful high paying career where I have worked for multiple different global companies. Noone has ever asked to see my degree proof, transcripts or any other paperwork.

Well done to him for finishing . I struggled at uni too, and it can be a hard time (especially when everyone else seems to be having a great time). Once he has his first job and some experience the class will be much less relevant. I would suggest trying to get into the work on a temp contract, and then he can prove his worth. Good luck!